The Alicorn Lance (AoN Link) is a specific magic weapon that uses the Lance as a base.
Lance has "Hands: 2", while the Alicorn Lance says: "Usage: held in 1 hand"
Can I use the Alicorn Lance as a lance while not mounted and using only one hand? Or is the usage only relevant for its special two action ability, which kind of summons a mount for that action, thus allowing me to use the lance in its jousting configuration for that specific action?
Being able to ALWAYS use it with just one hand would maybe make the weapon too good - d8, reach, deadly, decent crit effect. But on the other hand, if I can ONLY use it in one hand while mounted or using that special ability (once per hour, unfortunately), it wouldn't really make any sense to use it one handed in the first place (unless mounted of course). Having a weapon that you effectively can only use once per hour sounds like a bad idea.
My take on it is that the Alicorn Lance still uses 2 hands ordinarily, This is how lances work and treasure vault is known for very consistent "rules wonkiness".
But my guess is that they wanted you to be able to activate the ability while holding it one handed, Which may be relevant in some scenarios, and otherwise treat it as a two handed weapon.
(I believe the rules cover that you can always hold things with 1 handed usage with more than one hand, but it only imparts bonuses with the two hand trait or similar but I cannot find it)
I actually found a second two handed weapon that has a specific magic version that is one handed: The Scarlet Queen
This, too, is from a rather small product (Highhelm), so it might be a second case of wonkiness. Or those weapons are indeed intended to change the number of hands you need.
I took some time looking it up and I believe that Hands and Usage are meant to be two separate statistics.
Hands specifically refers to what the weapon qualifies as, that being as many hands you need to 'wield' it. A weapon with the two-hand trait will never be considered a two handed weapon because it specifically is a one handed weapon with boon from two handed usage (this was covered in errata clarification)
Usage refers to what way you need to hold it for abilities. So I do believe you were correct earlier that its purely for the two action ability.
Ofcourse I am rather unsure but that seems to be the intention.
But it stands to believe that a lance is always a two handed weapon but because of its trait you can use it one handed, It will never be a one handed weapon but it can still be activated with one hand.
FAQ Errata wrote: Pages 279–280 (Clarification): If I hold a weapon that requires 1 hand in 2 hands, is it a 2-handed weapon?
There are two answers to this.
For abilities that count the number of hands for a weapon while you're using it, such as an action with "Requirements You are wielding a one-handed melee weapon," count the actual number of hands you're using at the time. If you're holding a bastard sword in two hands, you couldn't use it with that ability. Weapons with the "1+" notation in their description, such as most bows, use both your hands when shooting, but leave you with a hand free for other actions the rest of the time.
Anything that's an intrinsic part of the weapon, such as a shifting rune, works differently. Reference the weapon's "Hands" entry in the weapons table—a bastard sword requires 1 hand, even though it gets a benefit in two hands from the two-hand trait. If you were holding a shifting bastard sword in two hands and activated it, you could turn it into a longsword (which you'd still be holding in two hands), but couldn't turn it into a greatsword (which requires 2 hands). For this purpose, "1" and "1+" are the same (though this doesn't matter for shifting since "1+" appears ranged weapons).
FAQ Errata wrote: Page 585 (Clarification): What can a shifting rune change a weapon into?
This repeats some information from the clarification on one-handed versus two-handed weapons.
Because a shifting rune is based on the attributes of the weapon it's etched to, reference the weapon's "Hands" entry in the weapons table to see what it can turn into. A bastard sword requires 1 hand, even though it gets a benefit in two hand from the two-hand trait. If you were holding a shifting bastard sword in two hands and activated it, you could turn it into a longsword (which you'd still be holding in two hands), but couldn't turn it into a greatsword (which requires 2 hands).
So what if the weapon has the jousting trait, normally requiring two hands, but you're wielding it in one hand because you're on a mount? You can activate shifting to turn it into a different weapon that requires 2 hands and has the jousting trait and continue as you are, or you can turn it into a weapon that requires 2 hands and doesn't have the jousting trait. If you do that, you're still holding it in one hand, but can't wield it unless you free up another hand and Interact to change how you're holding it.
One further note: The shifting rune can change the Bulk of the weapon, but you can't, for example, turn an adamantine shifting weapon of light Bulk into a weapon of 1 Bulk and sell the adamantine. You would use the base form, not the form magic has turned it into.
I would summarize this as: For using it as a weapon, use the hands requirement. For any ability or such that require you to hold something a certain way, reference the usage or requirement entries.
It's usage 1 hand so you can use the lance one handed while mounted and the ability in question requires riding a horse to use it. This way, you can use the lances special ability to 1 hand it mounted.
graystone wrote: It's usage 1 hand so you can use the lance one handed while mounted and the ability in question requires riding a horse to use it. This way, you can use the lances special ability to 1 hand it mounted. I presume you mean use its activated ability while one handing, Because you can already use a regular lance one-handed due to its Jousting Trait?
It also does not mention needing to be mounted to use, Rather it states that there is an additional/different effect if you were to be mounted while using it.
NorrKnekten wrote: graystone wrote: It's usage 1 hand so you can use the lance one handed while mounted and the ability in question requires riding a horse to use it. This way, you can use the lances special ability to 1 hand it mounted. I presume you mean use its activated ability while one handing, Because you can already use a regular lance one-handed due to its Jousting Trait? Yes.
NorrKnekten wrote: It also does not mention needing to be mounted to use, Rather it states that there is an additional/different effect if you were to be mounted while using it. "You evoke the spirit of the unicorn that donated the alicorn lance's horn, which you ride in a shining charge."
"If you were already mounted when you Activate the horn, the unicorn spirit takes shape around your steed, granting it a +10–foot status bonus to its Speed for the charge."
You LITERALLY are riding a mount for the ability. The only difference is if you start on a mount or the ability makes one.
Right, just asking for clarification as it sounded like you were saying that you had to be mounted in order to activate it. But we are on the same page.
NorrKnekten wrote: Right, just asking for clarification as it sounded like you were saying that you had to be mounted in order to activate it. But we are on the same page. Oh, I understand you now. Yeah, we're agreeing. ;)
Adding my agreement to the ruling. For whatever that's worth.
'Hands 2' is still in effect for the Lance part of the Alicorn Lance, and the Jousting trait allows it to be wielded 1-handed while the user is mounted.
'Usage held in 1 hand' is for activating the item's ability.
Which means that you can activate the ability while wielding the Alicorn Lance 2-handed while unmounted and can still activate the ability while wielding the lance 1-handed while mounted.
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Also agree with the above.
Basically you can be standing, holding the alicorn lance one handed. In this configuration you can't use it as a weapon because you're not mounted.
You spend 2 actions to activate its ability, while holding it with one hand, and can charge and attack with it. I assume there is a level of "baked in" not needing to adjust your hand to go from "holding" to "prepared to use" through the magic of the ability that summons the mount under you. Honestly it's unclear to me if it would even be required, but normally changing the number of hands your using is an interact action...but you're not changing the number of hands, it's just that suddenly you have the right number of hands to use it as a weapon.
Thanks everyone. That is how I see it as well. I was hoping for something else, since this way, unless you are mounted, the 1 handed use case is limited to 1/hour. Nothing you can really plan your fighting style around. A shame. Cool item, though not particularly good - unless of course you are already mounted and need holy damage.
I think its decent, If you are only using it without a mount then its effectively a naginata. The ability is decent, As it effectively is Sudden Charge with a small damage bonus, not something I would keep around for long though
It has some specific short lived use case, but I agree it's not a weapon you would keep around long term.
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