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It seems like there was no thread for this movie. If I missed it, I apologize.
Saw it today. Went to a fairly low key not premium theater because my wife sometimes has sensory issues with big action things.
I had a lot of fun. It wasn't as funny as I expected it to be, though the wife thought it was quite fun and funny. Maybe my expectations for the banter were too high. She is a much more casual fan, so maybe that is a good sign.
All of the Thunderbolts characters had a chance to shine. Buckey, Yelena, Red Guardian all had good moments and some development. John Walker was a little short changed. We saw his pain and struggle, but the resolution of that was yadda yaddaed.
Taskmaster was done dirty.
Bob was amazing. One of my least favorite Marvel characters, but I really enjoyed his personality and struggles and his power set in this movie. I wish I could think that we would get a Bob and Banner movie, but I suspect that will never happen.
Loved that so much of the movie was shot on real sets and felt real and grounded. A solid entry in the MCU.
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I also saw it this weekend and enjoyed it. I like that there wasn't really all that much humor (and almost all limited to Red Guardian's character, so that he helped to balance out the sometimes overly serious and 'heavy' characters like Walker, or the heavy focus on how their lives and work had left them all pretty damaged).
I'm a huge fan of the actress who plays Ghost (Hannah John-Kamen? Her show Killjoys was amazing!), but also like Bucky and Yelena quite a bit, too (Yelena even more so after her appearance in the Hawkeye series), and was surprised at how great John Walker was in F&tWS, so really, no 'misses' for characters for me. (And hey, I'm even that one person who thought it was cool that they went back to that 'Drakov's daughter' line from the Avengers for their Taskmaster reveal in Black Widow. And yeah, she did get shortchanged! OTOH, she actually had a speaking line, which, I think?, is more than she got in Black Widow?)
Bob is one of my least favorite Marvel comics characters, and I was pleasantly surprised with how well this story was adapted, and how much I liked the MCU version.
Interesting to see where the future is going for a possible Avengers lineup. Hulk, Hawkeye/Clint, Spider-Man, Captain America/Sam, Ant-Man, War Machine, Thor, Captain Marvel and Dr. Strange are still hanging around as possible Avengers, but there are also possibilities like Moon Knight, She-Hulk, Shang-Chi, Photon/Monica, etc. and even teased characters like Black Knight (only seen as Dane Whitman, in the Eternals). And now this new batch!
I do kind of hope that Bob, post-weirdness, comes down a bit in power levels. I really don't want another 'wannabe Superman' (like Captain Marvel) flying around the MCU.
I like how they assemble of team of; 'What, none of you can fly? We all just punch and shoot things?' and the challenge ends up being something they can't punch or shoot, but have to actually do some work to resolve, and not fall back on their specialties.
Seeing Ghost/Ava again leads me to wonder what's up with her. Is she 'half-cured?' from Janet's quantum lay on hands? Does she still work with Bill Foster?
Still hate Valentina. And hey, everyone else does, too, so it's not a 'I'm the one nut who hates Coulson' island of exile for me! :)
I think HulkBannor is good where he is. He has found balance and to suddenly go Immortal Hulk would really do him dirty.
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Finally got to see this. Loved it. Truly I think one of the best Marvel films to date (for me personally).
I loved that basically friendship was the real superpower all along. I don't care how hokey that is. The best Marvel stories are about relationships and overcoming trauma together. This is what this film was.
I was pleasantly surprised to see Yelena have such a big role. I mean, she should, but rarely do the characters I enjoy most take center stage.
I strangely found Mel intriguing. For a side non superhero character, she actually was one of the main drivers of the plot.
I like Val as a villain. Which is to say, I do not want to be her friend, but she plays the role she is supposed to play very well.
I do agree Taskmaster was done dirty. I really thought the Black Widow film really intended to set her up for something more than what she got. Maybe plans changed.
Bob was the character I was least interested in at the start and they did a good job at making me care about where he was going.
Also loved the post credit scene for many reasons.
Seeing Ghost/Ava again leads me to wonder what's up with her. Is she 'half-cured?' from Janet's quantum lay on hands? Does she still work with Bill Foster?
There was some exposition that Janet helped her enough and her current suit does a better job of stabilizing her. I honestly think they forgot Ant-Man was supposed to be collecting quantum magic stuff for Ava when the Blip happened.
I think it's a good movie, just not sure when you have Sentry as the bad guy...you can do much if there's no one in his weight class...kind of.
Screen Rant says it's just about broken even.
It has had consistently good reviews, etc. Everyone I know who has seen it liked it. I think it is a sign of two things: there is a "superhero fatigue" setting/Marvel put out some mediocre stuff that caused a bunch of folks to jump ship. But moreover... we're in uncertain economic times and going to the movies is expensive. People with kids will prioritize Lilo & Stitch and people wanting to see a movie about people who sneak, punch, and shoot will prioritize Mission Impossible (I'm trying to save money and I really want to see MI but had wanted to see Thunderbolts more). The timing wasn't good for it.
It'll be interesting to see how F4 does. It has broader audience potential. Slated for summer, hopefully that'll help it.
We'll see. I am concerned about the future of the MCU on the big screen...but only because I fear Chris Hemsworth might go and that leaves a big hole in my view for MCU fans.
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Oddly, Chris Hemsworth is about the last person I care about in the MCU (no offense to him, I just really have never cared for Thor). But I doubt I am representative of the majority of fans.
DQ,
Probably but then again I'm a huge Thor fan so.....I might over-represent things.
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I LOVED the way Thor was portrayed in earlier MCU movies but I absolutely HATE the more recent goofy comedy version of Thor.
I get that Hemsworth is a funny guy and that’s awesome, but that doesn’t mean Thor should be a wacky joker.
I prefer my Thor to be more Shakespearian with some gravitas, not a quippy joke machine …
I like both versions of Thor. Shakespearean, Depressed, and Quippy. Maybe that is three versions.
As much as I would love a massive CGI battle between Savage Hulk, Hemsworth Thor, and Sentry in the MCU, I would also very much enjoy Hulk/Banner, Sad Thor, and Sentry getting together for a big fight and then just seeing the trauma in each other's eyes and sitting down for a mead and a talk. That would be both touching and hilarious.
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I LOVED the way Thor was portrayed in earlier MCU movies but I absolutely HATE the more recent goofy comedy version of Thor.
I get that Hemsworth is a funny guy and that’s awesome, but that doesn’t mean Thor should be a wacky joker.
I prefer my Thor to be more Shakespearian with some gravitas, not a quippy joke machine …
Same. I don't care for the MCU Thor for the exact reason that I *love* comic book Thor. Comic-Thor is portentous and larger than life and a little bit scary, even to his allies. He's not the funny drunk in the fat suit. He doesn't get tasered or backed into by a car by his girlfriend (in one of his better movies, where he wasn't entirely a joke, even!).
As a bit of a comic snob, I'm often surprised by how much I love MCU characters whose comic-book version I cannot stand (like Bob/the Sentry), and how much characters I really love from the comics, leave me cold in the MCU (Clint/Hawkeye, who, IMO, is deadly dull compared to the wisecracking pain-in-Caps-ass he is in the comics).
And that's something I do love about the MCU in general, is that some characters that in the comics never really seemed to click for me (like Natasha or Yelena) have really blossomed in the MCU, under different writing / interpretations (and with actors bringing them to life).
The differences are often very cool for characters that I didn't already love, but are jarring and unwelcome in cases like Thor, whom I liked as he already was, and do not like the MCU interpretation of. So, yes, total hypocrisy. I own that. :)
I only own the fact I love Thor...and yeah I'd love to see some of the comic book powerhouse of Thor in an MCU movie. But it's not a pre-requisite for me to enjoy a Thor movie. (Some times. Gorr is a good example of how to not read a room when it comes to interpreting a character from comics to the movie screen.)
I saw this in the theater yesterday, possibly the last chance I'd get before it leaves the theaters, and overall I liked it.
I feel like the way they're portraying these characters (each as their own version of a$&&~**) will be tough to maintain long term. The only way I can see it is if they redeem the characters even further, thus changing the characters, but I also don't see them redeeming all of those characters. What I'm saying is that it will be interesting to see what they do with the Thunderbolts, either as a team or individually.
And I'm pretty bothered by how they got rid of Taskmaster. It wasn't even a meaningful death! In the comics, Taskmaster is a long-standing (dare I say important) character, and in the MCU, she was a tragic character who had a load of potential. And she was just in the movie for a few minutes to... what? Show that the movie was lethal? When no other character even died? It's a disappointing trend how the MCU thinks the only resolution for most antagonists is to kill them off.
But I liked the movie overall. Interesting that the post credit scene is setting up a rivalry between Sam Wilson and the new team.
*record scratches*
Hold up. Look, I agree Taskmaster was done dirty here. I've heard rumors they do actually still have plans for the character, due to multiverse shenanigans. Or it could just be the actor was done/had conflicts.
But Taskmaster is an important character??? Really?!
I've been reading comics since I was a kid. More DC than Marvel in my youth, sure, but I've been reading them a long time. I've also watched my fair share of spinoff cartoons and the like... Spidey and Amazing Friends, X Men, etc. I feel reasonably well versed in Marvel lore, and far more so than your average person on the street.
I had never even heard of Taskmaster until the character was announced for the Black Widow movie. And I even love B-listers. The Domino comics a few years back were great, for example. Never heard of Taskmaster though. When people were b$$$~ing about changes made to Taskmaster in that film,* I asked a friend of mine who had even been far more deeply involved in reading Marvel stuff since the 80s than I had been. "Am I missing someone critically important to the MCU? Why are they so pissed? Do I need to know who this guy is?" I asked. He replied, "Nah, he's not important. He's C-list at best, and mostly a joke. I have no idea why they're so mad, I think they're just complaining because of the gender swap." (Andostre, not suggesting you are complaining about that, just what my friend said about why huge swaths of fandom hated how Taskmaster was used in Black Widow. My only issue about Taskmaster in Black Widow is apart from the Dreykov's daughter twist, the Taskmaster identity was pointless and it might have been better to make a unique character to the movie. Or make her Iron Maiden and have Melina take her suit at the end of the movie.)
I've since looked up his appearances in the comics. Looks like he had a major role in one Avengers storyline in 2014. Mainly appeared in comics 2009-2014 after a couple small appearances in the 80s and 90s. When I think of an "important" character I'd think of the main Marvel folks who've been around since the 60s and 70s. Doom. Spidey. F4. Cap. Magneto. Even Iron Man wasn't as a big a deal until the movie, but Iron Man I'd still call "important" and he's been around a long, long time.
So please educate me: is this character who per the link I provided hasn't even BEEN in any comics in 11 years terribly important and I have just missed him/been miseducated? Or what's the deal?
I mean, I get sometimes just liking a minor character. So many comic characters I adore are far from the most popular ones. There's one character who showed up in a minor John Byrne miniseries in the 90s that was a spinoff of a spinoff of a spinoff who I adored and lament I'll never see again. I get sometimes just liking that one person. But people act like the MCU couldn't exist without Taskmaster. Apparently he's bigger than Spider-Man, and the worst thing the MCU has ever done is their changes to the characterization and use of the character. Please help me understand.
Any tone of frustration in this post is frustration with the Internet at large putting this guy(gal) I've barely heard of on a pedestal and with my own lack of comprehension of this situation--because people will NOT STOP talking about this one thing in this movie--and my wondering why that's more of a talking point than things that have happened to far more established characters in the MCU, and is not intended to be personal to Andostre or anyone else here.
* As an aside, I wonder if they actually killed off Taskmaster because so many vocal fans hated how the character was treated in Black Widow, so they thought it would be fine to make her a disposable casualty since nobody seemed to like her anyway. And now it's surprising so many people cared she died.
THanks, TheJeff. I did say "appearances in the 80s and 90s." The list on the fandom site is a bit harder to make sense of, so I'm sorry if I posted a poorer reference.
Okay, I can walk back my parenthetical "important," because you're right: he's not important compared to many many other Marvel characters. I'll stand by long-standing, though. And I've enjoyed the character as a villain. His ability more often than not made for interesting fights. Plus, I really enjoyed him as a character in Gail Simone's Deadpool run.
So, "important" was a poor word choice, even though it's subjective. The point that I was trying to get across, however... well, I guess there were two points. One, it's an example of how most MCU villains aren't given a chance to be interesting because the studio treats them as disposable. And if you happen to enjoy the character from the comics, it's even more disappointing. Recurring villains are a staple of superhero stories, and that's often a key component to making them engaging.
Second, I think the MCU version of the character was tragic and had potential to tell or contribute to a good story. The way she was killed off to prove some point was also disappointing. If the MCU needed a disposable villain for that scene, I wished they would have used a character that they hadn't already invested some screentime in before I got to enjoy her.
Okay, I can walk back my parenthetical "important," because you're right: he's not important compared to many many other Marvel characters. I'll stand by long-standing, though. And I've enjoyed the character as a villain. His ability more often than not made for interesting fights. Plus, I really enjoyed him as a character in Gail Simone's Deadpool run.
Fair enough. I'd still love for someone to explain to me why so many people across the Internet are Taskmaster stans, though, apparently. Because lots of people are hung up on dislike for how the character was used in both BW and Thunderbolts, to the point online discourse about both movies seems to revolve around Taskmaster more than anything else, and I want to understand why this side character warrants so much discourse (when no one ever wants to talk about the side characters I like *pouts*).
One, it's an example of how most MCU villains aren't given a chance to be interesting because the studio treats them as disposable. And if you happen to enjoy the character from the comics, it's even more disappointing. Recurring villains are a staple of superhero stories, and that's often a key component to making them engaging.
Marvel's treatment of villains is generally disappointing, agreed.
Though I want to be fair to Thunderbolts, because as a whole bucks it that trend as everyone in the lineup is ostensibly a villain and/or wildcard at best working for a villain, and both actual villains of the story (Val and the Void) are not actually killed off and we should probably see them both again later.
Second, I think the MCU version of the character was tragic and had potential to tell or contribute to a good story. The way she was killed off to prove some point was also disappointing. If the MCU needed a disposable villain for that scene, I wished they would have used a character that they hadn't already invested some screentime in before I got to enjoy her.
That all is completely fair (and I'll repeat I think naming her Taskmaster was probably a mistake). I think it would actually have been cool if she had actually stayed a recurring villain. But then that also gets to actor availability again.
I particularly agree that it's stupid to kill off characters for optics' sake. I know many audience members get whiny if no one dies because "the stakes weren't high enough" but the stakes can be other things, like people's sanity or relationships or whether they get to eat tacos or something. Dying should happen when it serves a character's story, not as a cheap plot device.
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*record scratches*
Hold up. Look, I agree Taskmaster was done dirty here. I've heard rumors they do actually still have plans for the character, due to multiverse shenanigans. Or it could just be the actor was done/had conflicts.
But Taskmaster is an important character??? Really?!
I've been reading comics since I was a kid. More DC than Marvel in my youth, sure, but I've been reading them a long time. I've also watched my fair share of spinoff cartoons and the like... Spidey and Amazing Friends, X Men, etc. I feel reasonably well versed in Marvel lore, and far more so than your average person on the street.
I had never even heard of Taskmaster until the character was announced for the Black Widow movie. And I even love B-listers. The Domino comics a few years back were great, for example. Never heard of Taskmaster though. When people were b!*!+ing about changes made to Taskmaster in that film,* I asked a friend of mine who had even been far more deeply involved in reading Marvel stuff since the 80s than I had been. "Am I missing someone critically important to the MCU? Why are they so pissed? Do I need to know who this guy is?" I asked. He replied, "Nah, he's not important. He's C-list at best, and mostly a joke. I have no idea why they're so mad, I think they're just complaining because of the gender swap." (Andostre, not suggesting you are complaining about that, just what my friend said about why huge swaths of fandom hated how Taskmaster was used in Black Widow. My only issue about Taskmaster in Black Widow is apart from the Dreykov's daughter twist, the Taskmaster identity was pointless and it might have been better to make a unique character to the movie. Or make her Iron Maiden and have Melina take her suit at the end of the movie.)
I've since looked up his appearances in the comics. Looks like he had a major role in one Avengers storyline in 2014. Mainly...
NO Taskmaster is not a major Marvel character, and honestly, the iteration of the character in the MCU isn't really the Taskmaster that I grew up with in the comics.
I get that you've never heard of him, but if you've been reading comics since the 70s and 80's you know that Taskmaster was the guy major villains hired to train their hordes of faceless thugs. That most of the time he took the money doing this rather than going out and doing crimes himself. That alone made him an interesting character in that he was a pragmatic antagonist, which could have translated well to live action.
I grew up reading a lot of Marvel, including his earliest appearances (I have a 1st appearance of Taskmaster signed by George Perez, R.I.P.). His origin was redone in the late 90s and early 2000s, and retconned VERY well and very tragically. He's also a relatively decent part of the AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE series by Dan Slott and Christos Gage post-Civil War. He's a great character with A LOT of potential, and that's what I think upsets fans of the character, myself included. It was an ignoble death, and within the context of the story, I get why it was sort of necessary, but still...
I'd still love for someone to explain to me why so many people across the Internet are Taskmaster stans, though, apparently. Because lots of people are hung up on dislike for how the character was used in both BW and Thunderbolts, to the point online discourse about both movies seems to revolve around Taskmaster more than anything else, and I want to understand why this side character warrants so much discourse (when no one ever wants to talk about the side characters I like *pouts*).
I can't help you there, DQ, sorry. This board and my wife's endless* patience are really the only places that I talk to about superhero movies. I had that urge mostly burned out of me in the early 2000s when I was a moderator for a comic book message board. I haven't really heard any MCU Taskmaster discussion, but what you describe doesn't surprise me.
However, if you want to gripe about or praise any obscure character, I'll listen! And I'll respond if I know who you're talking about! *fist bump*
* It's not really endless.
Taskmaster isn't a major player. He's just better hired help than some other C+ fodder. He's only a major player when you have the younger generation of heroes with less experience and certainly smaller power sets run up against him.
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‘Thunderbolts*’ Lost Millions of Dollars Despite Great Reviews. Where Does Marvel Go Next?
Probably not the kind of news Disney needed making headlines just a few weeks out from a nearly head-to-head summer match up with the Man of Steel (and dinosaurs). I can’t say I’m surprised, though.
I'm still holding out hope the rest of the MCU hangs in there. I mean Daredevil seemed to do very well for Disney.
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He's a great character with A LOT of potential, and that's what I think upsets fans of the character, myself included.
*channels Olympia Dukakis in Moonstruck* Thank you! Thank you for answering my question!
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There was a no-win scenario there for Marvel. I never imagined that Taskmaster had a fandom, like, at all, other than as the inspiration for, IIRC, the much MUCH more successful Deathstroke, introduced 10 months later over at DC, but the fact that he apparently *does* means that his fans are going to be upset that he was gender-swapped, and, IMO, made much more relevant to the MCU continuity as 'Dreykov's Daughter' than he's ever been in the comics, where he's, AFAIK, related to nobody, and nobody's archnemesis, and his actual *job description* is 'the guy who trains mooks.' (His big role in Civil War, for instance, was getting hospitalized with third degree burns all over his body from a blast by Dr. Doom for *interrupting him.* Before that meeting he'd been boasting to a friend how he was not just as the 'big table,' he was gonna sit with the owners, and then, bam, not quite ready for the prime time...)
As for those of us who wanted to really see the MCU Taskmaster's evolution from a single line about Dreykov's Daughter in Avengers, to the horribly abused child-turned-cyberzombie-assassin-by-daddy in Black Widow, to, hopefully, something more human?, well, we too are disappointed that she got so casually killed off.
As mentioned, it feels like she had an arc there. Certainly more to flesh out than with Bucky, IMO, who is awesome, but has already gotten quite a bit of play, and a pair of movies where he's pretty darn central to the plot (Winter Soldier and Civil War).
I do kind of like the emptiness of Ghost and Yelena's exchange afterwards. "Who was that I killed?" "Antonia. She had a hard life. And now she's dead." Kind of a gut punch how much that said about Yelena, who has spent a percentage of her life trying to rescue women from the sorts of fates as disposable soldiers that Dreykov had made of them, to just sort of shrug, because she can't allow losing another one to kill any more of her soul than she's already lost.
OTOH, with such a badass team of really effective killers, it was a bit of a surprise to see Ghost be the one to make a kill, taking advantage of being one of the only ones with a surprisingly effective superpower (other than, as Yelena points out, 'just able to punch and shoot things.'
However, if you want to gripe about or praise any obscure character, I'll listen! And I'll respond if I know who you're talking about! *fist bump*
+1 to this. As someone whose favorite Avengers are people like Stingray, Black Knight, Living Lightning, Moondragon and Monica Rambeau, I've a deep neurotic love for the lesser-seen Avengers!
Heck, I'd love a Justice League lineup that used the 'bottom half' of the Satellite League. No 'big seven.' Just Green Arrow, Black Canary, Elongated Man (and Sue), the Atom, Red Tornado, Hawkwoman, Zatanna. Maybe a few of my favorites from later, like Vixen, Booster Gold or Black Lightning. A team where Green Arrow, not Bruce, is the team money-man. Where Ralph and Sue are the team detective, and Ray Palmer the team sciencer, and Dinah the street-savvy melee specialist, and *Red Tornado* the team powerhouse!
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Well I appreciate the offer, and expect to see you both at the Zinda Blake Fan Club. ;) (In seriousness, should I start a "share your favorite b and c listers here!" thread?)
My lesser Avengers are Wonder Man, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch and Vision.
Though Thor still ranks high.
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Well I appreciate the offer, and expect to see you both at the Zinda Blake Fan Club. ;) (In seriousness, should I start a "share your favorite b and c listers here!" thread?)
Only if you want to hear a lot of rambling about Multiple Man.
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Well I appreciate the offer, and expect to see you both at the Zinda Blake Fan Club. ;) (In seriousness, should I start a "share your favorite b and c listers here!" thread?)Only if you want to hear a lot of rambling about Multiple Man.
Oh goodness, Madrox is one of my favorite mutants, and definitely one of my favorite 'lower tier' mutants, along with folks like Frenzy, Diamond Lil, Dust, Hellion, Wind-Dancer, Wiz Kid, Sunspot, etc. (Nightcrawler and Cyclops being two of my favorite 'popular' mutants.)
My lesser Avengers are Wonder Man, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch and Vision.
Though Thor still ranks high.
Love old school Scarlet Witch, her circa Marvel Handbook power of 'bad luck bolts, only *I choose* the bad luck that's going to happen to you!' was *amazing!* "Hawkeye? Bowstring snapped. And now you've had a muscle cramp and can't use your arm anyway. Iron Man? Armor shorted out, oops. Thor? Lost your balance while swinging your hammer and clocked yourself in the back of the head. Hercules? Huh. Wardrobe malfunction? No, you'd like that. Have a stroke. You're a god, you'll be fine, just useless for a few hours."
Quicksilver had a great ascerbic personality, which made him fun to see causing trouble and being a putz to everyone.
It interests me how Marvel and DC focus on different archetypes. DC owns that speedster niche with a whole Flash family. Marvel totally rules the psychics roost, with more telepaths (mostly mutants) and telekinetics than I can list.
I kind of like that, instead of each company having a bunch of clones of each others successful IPs. (Which leads back to topicality, not liking the Sentry much in the comics, 'cause his 'super-power' is pretty much, 'Marvel's Superman.' Meh.)
And then there's characters whose powers don't seem to have anything to do with each other, but *feel* similar, thematically. Firestorm at DC and Nova at Marvel felt very similar to me, despite being vastly different in all sorts of ways.
All I know is why I loved Thor is unlike Superman, his power was part of being "Worthy".
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Well I appreciate the offer, and expect to see you both at the Zinda Blake Fan Club. ;) (In seriousness, should I start a "share your favorite b and c listers here!" thread?)Only if you want to hear a lot of rambling about Multiple Man.Oh goodness, Madrox is one of my favorite mutants, and definitely one of my favorite 'lower tier' mutants, along with folks like Frenzy, Diamond Lil, Dust, Hellion, Wind-Dancer, Wiz Kid, Sunspot, etc. (Nightcrawler and Cyclops being two of my favorite 'popular' mutants.)
Multiple Man is vastly underrated. I really enjoyed the run of X-Factor when he first joined to that team.
Oh goodness, Madrox is one of my favorite mutants, and definitely one of my favorite 'lower tier' mutants, along with folks like Frenzy, Diamond Lil, Dust, Hellion, Wind-Dancer, Wiz Kid, Sunspot, etc. (Nightcrawler and Cyclops being two of my favorite 'popular' mutants.)Well I appreciate the offer, and expect to see you both at the Zinda Blake Fan Club. ;) (In seriousness, should I start a "share your favorite b and c listers here!" thread?)Only if you want to hear a lot of rambling about Multiple Man.
Can I add Outlaw to the list?
I like Multiple Man too.
Love old school Scarlet Witch, her circa Marvel Handbook power of 'bad luck bolts, only *I choose* the bad luck that's going to happen to you!' was *amazing!* "Hawkeye? Bowstring snapped. And now you've had a muscle cramp and can't use your arm anyway. Iron Man? Armor shorted out, oops. Thor? Lost your balance while swinging your hammer and clocked yourself in the back of the head. Hercules? Huh. Wardrobe malfunction? No, you'd like that. Have a stroke. You're a god, you'll be fine, just useless for a few hours."
I wonder how that would interact with Domino's mutation. Just cancel out?
It interests me how Marvel and DC focus on different archetypes. DC owns that speedster niche with a whole Flash family. Marvel totally rules the psychics roost, with more telepaths (mostly mutants) and telekinetics than I can list.
I feel like DC does better, oddly, with paragons and street level. Like, Superman and Wonder Woman and Green Lantern on one end... and then there's the whole Gotham family who is all, to quote Yelena Belova in Thunderbolts (see I kept on topic!), "punching and shooting." Well, mostly punching. But there's a huge range of personalities and drama in there, which keeps it interesting. (I am a low-power scale DC fan. I have nearly every Birds of Prey ever published until the New 52 destroyed everything. I really like the "heroes in under their heads" motif. Which is also why I really loved Thunderbolts. In retrospect, therefore, it's not shocking it did poorly; I tend to like stuff that doesn't sell well.)
While both of course have a gamut, I feel like Marvel's characters shine where there's either a focused ability (the various mutant powers) or where the backstory/modus operandi is more of the draw than the actual power set. Like Jessica Jones power-wise is just a bog-standard flying brick (and by her own admission flies poorly), but only Marvel would say, "let's make the flying brick a snarky private detective with a tragic past." So she usually is doing what the punching and shooting level characters do, and then just when you're absorbed into the noir of it all, she throws a car at you. Likewise, I really like the She-Hulk stories where there's a big focus on her actually being a lawyer. Who just happens to be able to juggle buses. There's something about that I find endlessly entertaining.
Otherwise the difference between Marvel and DC is as it was presented in the Marvel vs DC comics in the 90s: in the Marvel universe, the normies generally distrust supers (or their existence is more controversial; like the man on the street might like Spidey, but JJJ still wants his head, metaphorically speaking). In the DC universe, the normies more typically accept them, if not revere them (which I also think is one of the reasons why some of the Zack Snyder movies didn't quite work because it was setting up a world resenting the heroes.
I kind of like that, instead of each company having a bunch of clones of each others successful IPs. (Which leads back to topicality, not liking the Sentry much in the comics, 'cause his 'super-power' is pretty much, 'Marvel's Superman.' Meh.)
And then there's characters whose powers don't seem to have anything to do with each other, but *feel* similar, thematically. Firestorm at DC and Nova at Marvel felt very similar...
IDK. When it's an obvious "clone" it can be annoying sometimes. But it's also a way of exploring different sides of a similar story. Sentry isn't just Superman. It's what if Superman went horribly wrong? Or what if a heavily flawed person got Superman's powers, rather than the most boy scoutish of boy scouts? I actually find that really interesting to explore.
And then there's characters whose powers don't seem to have anything to do with each other, but *feel* similar, thematically. Firestorm at DC and Nova at Marvel felt very similar...
Oh yeah, both comics have tons of clones of each other. If it's not powers, it's stories (billionaire brilliant playboy gadgeteer). Between power cloning and echoes of stories, it's how they made the Amalgam project work. Even the characters who are/seem fairly well developed and unique still have patterns you can trace across comics. I mean, it's weird that both DC and Marvel have a wisecracking archer who's dated a kickass field agent named after a bird, right? (In case not obvious: Hawkeye/Mockingbird and Green Arrow/Black Canary)
And sure, Carol Danvers has been around since 1968 or so. After Wonder Woman got a massive resurgence of popularity in 1976 due to the Lynda Carter series, suddenly Marvel had an original idea: let's give superpowers to a character who had previously been a minor character representing a feminist voice. She got an alliterative feminist moniker: Ms. Marvel (We use it all the time now, but I believe "Ms." was a somewhat controversial title to give someone in 1977; it was treated then like they/them pronouns are now). Now, would I call Carol a complete Wonder Woman clone? Nah. But both paragon-level heroes wearing scanty red, gold, and blue out outfits with military alter egos (WW was Lt. Prince at the time in the comics). I think they brought out Ms. Marvel in 1977 pretty as a direct response to Wonder Woman.
I could go on but you get my drift. Both comics have many characters who echo each other. Hell, since we were talking about Taskmaster, isn't he and Prometheus basically the same character? Anyway. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but again is how you tell the stories about it.
Which leads to the question: are the Thunderbolts Marvel's Suicide Squad or are they the Secret Six?