Light of Iomedae (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic) possible errata


Rules Questions


Hello,

I'm building a cleric for an undead-oriented campaign (Pathfinder 1.0), and I found this spell interesting to be used in conjunction with Cleric Sun Domain - Sun’s Blessing (Su).

I wonder if the casting time of 1 minute is an errata because it makes the spell almost impossible to cast in combat while its purpose seems to help locate incorporals' undead.

Thanks for taking the time to look into this

Zeadkiel


As a note, there is a forum for PF1E rules questions. Here it is. I'd recommend reposting this question there.


Sun domain
where you can read Sun's Blessing (Su): Whenever you channel positive energy to harm undead creatures, add your cleric level to the damage dealt. Undead do not add their channel resistance to their saves when you channel positive energy.

Light of Iomedae:C3. right... it's an AoE protection and not really meant for early combat use. Only Invisible undead are mentioned, not incorporeal. Those who fail this save lose all benefits of channel resistance and take a –2 penalty on all saving throws made against positive energy effects. Inner Sea Magic came out in 2011, early on in the production of PF1. thread→ Complaint about the casting time was made in 2012.

AFAIK the two do not explicitly interact.
so no - not errata. It is also 7yrs post production and not likely to get an update.

Welcome to the many "could have been written better" descriptions. If your GM feels the casting time should come down to 3 rounds or 1 round, that is his prerogative to change it for his Home Game.


Thanks for the answer to you both

For Perpdepog: this post is already within the rule question for Pathfinder First Edition.

For Azothath: thanks a lot to have took time to look into this but I must say that I disagree with your position. First the Light of Iomedae spell target all undead incorporeal or not and yes both sun's blessing and light of Iomedae would interact pretty nicely if your character or campaign goes around undeads.

From my point of view, and this is why I think this casting time is possibly an error: this spell is not intended to be used as AoE protection as you mention, but to lower surrounding undeads resistance as the premise of using positive energy against them and by consequence intended to be used in combat. A Cleric first cast light of Iomedae on undead boss or boss cohort and then uses cleric's channeling to damage undeads, so in addition to losing their channel resistance bonus, they receive a -2 to their upcoming positive energy saves against Cleric's channel (with additional damage caused by the sun's blessing domain power) and to other spells using positive energy.

Second, I asked if the casting time of the light of Iomedae is an errata because this causes this spell that would possess a good potential against the undeads to be totally useless. It's sad to take time to create content that will never be used while I think it could be a good addition to the ever lasting fight of the livings against the Undeads.

I understand that it's a 7-year post-production content, but there are still many players like me that play every week with Pathfinder 1st edition rules, and having a pathfinder official that pass in a paizo forum saying that yes the casting time would be more accurate as 1 full round (even if it's not within an official published errata pdf), is far better than to be forced to deal with each dm to approve modification.

But as I said, thanks for your time on this Azothath


Rules Forum: okay - I generally take the tact that we just explain the rules here. We don't (okay - try not to be) critical or interpretive and don't give build advice (OMG - there's the Advice forum). I try to offer some historical perspective and links to RAW as often people don't do their research. Sometimes even I get tripped up by the basics, you just roll your eyes, say dingbat, and move on. So I'll just explain what is and then maybe offer advice at the end. Notice I'm not rehashing my earlier advice or commenting on the quality of the spell in overall Game context.

On taking designer posts as RAW: many years ago (2008-2012) developers would post their opinions trying to help players. Basically it got interpreted as RAW which led to a lot of "quote wars" at PFS tables. Paizo(PFS) had to come out and say it was just developer's helpful comments and should be considered carefully by GMs but not RAW (as RAW is a publish product). Afterwards developers prefaced posts with a 'my opinion' caveat to stop the over-interpretation or appeals to authority. There was also a popular sentiment that no good comes from posting guidance and it was a thankless (unpaid) effort.

On future FAQs: I know people want authoritative quotes as it's an easy answer. RAW, FAQs, etc are a product with copyrights and such so it is a business issue. Paizo has said there will be no further PF1 development. That means FAQs and such.

The FAQs and PFS documentation are there to help home GMs make decisions.
CRB FAQ which will list other FAQs.
some useful links for PFS (due to necessity had to issue many more updates to RAW)
Additional Resources note the handy listing on the right, many APs & blogs! (still works!)
Campaign Clarifications
Archives of Nethys(PF1) note that stuff is also listed by resource(book) which is handy when dealing with Add'l Res.


The Sun domain already causes undead to lose their channel resistance vs positive energy of the cleric with the domain. What the spell does is to give that benefit to characters channeling positive energy without the domain and to impose an additional -2 penalty on the save. But the undead affected by this spell get a will save (their strongest save) to avoid those effects of the spell. This spell has minimal benefits to channeling positive energy to a cleric with the Sun Domain.

The real benefit of the spell is that it reveals undead. Many undead have good stealth rolls or can become invisible. The main purpose of the spell is to create an area that other people besides the cleric can defend against undead. As a way to weaken undead this spell is actually really weak especially for a cleric with the Sun Domain.

The spell you want to use to weaken undead is the 2nd level spell Consecrate. It increases the DC to resist channel positive energy by +3, and imposes a -1 on all attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throw by undead. Since it is increasing the DC of channel energy and reducing the save the net result is the undead have a -4 penalty on their chance of resisting channel energy. It also has twice the area and lasts for 2 hours per level vs 1 minute per level and has a casting time of 1 a standard action.

Why would any cleric use a third level spell to weaken undead when a second level spell does a much better job?


Hello Azothath and Mysterious Stranger

As I previously said, I appreciate the time Azothath took to state the rule as is for the Light of Iomedae spell and at the same, confirm that there is no error, at least none officially published on it. Being usually ok with the provided rules in the Pathfinder books and also not being really active on Pathfinder forums, I was not aware of the ''quote war'' you mention. I know what you said makes perfect sense, and I can easily understand all the troubles it caused. Sorry if I directly or indirectly pushed you to provide advice or your opinion on this possible error in the spell casting time.

I will return the Light of Iomedae spell to the forgotten pages of the Inner Sea Magic and turn to the Mysterious Stranger suggestion with Consecrate.

Thank you all for the time iyou nvested in this post

Regards

The Exchange

I wonder if this spell was originally intended to function more like invisibility purge? I still don't personally think it would be a good value proposition but it would be a lot easier to visualize a use case if the radius moved with you.

Or if it lasted 1 hour/level, you could use it in a "The undead are trying to sneak up on us, we just need to stay in this room until dawn!" haunted house scenario that wasn't full-time combat.

As it reads:
I could maybe make up an encounter where it would be useful. Say; undead that couldn't leave a specific spot, and that the party needed to destroy. But honestly invisibility purge would still be the better choice.


Consecrate: Don't forget to get some small statues/icons of your deity and some alchemical glue so you can make little permanent shrines and double the bonuses.


If you are going to be using Consecrate invest in a weapon with the Reliquary property. It lets the weapon function as a holy symbol and counts as a permanent fixture of your faith while it is in the area of Consecrate. It only adds 250 gold to the cost of the weapon.

Even if you are not using Consecrate it is a good investment for any adventuring divine spell caster.


Hello,

this is an absolutely awesome suggestions, especially for the Reliquary weapon property. I will find some gold coins to invest on this for sure.

N.B. Thanks also to Belafon for his thinking.

Thanks and have a great weekend


For an undead focused cleric make sure to also take the glory domain in addition to the sun domain. The extra +2 on the DC makes it even harder for you channel energy to be resisted.

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