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Po Li is the seat of the Eternal Emperor. There hasn't been an Emperor there in over 100 years.
Supposedly, they're saving the throne for the Emperor's reincarnation.
The test to see if a candidate is worthy (and thus proof of them being the Emperor's reincarnation) is for them to sit on the throne and allow the Sky Dragon, Shen Ra, to breathe their breath weapon (electricity, I presume) on them. If they survive, it appears it is then presumed they are worthy. So far, no candidate has survived this test.
My question is who would the Oracular Council allow to sit on the throne in order to take the test?
It seems obvious they would allow a human or someone of human ancestry to take the test, but what about a kobold? Specifically, what about a half-dragon (Underworld) kobold?
If the kobold survived (let's say it was also a Mythic Monk 20 with over 200 HP), would it then be made Emperor or would the fact they were a kobold impair its ascension to being the new Eternal Emperor?
Maybe the Oracular Council might impose some sort of additional "test" or requirement because the candidate is a "mere" kobold in their eyes?
My suspicion after 100 years of being in power, the Oracular Council is not going to willing let anyone take the throne, and they will find reasons to deny/kill anyone who attempts it.
I expect any non-humans would be outright denied. Or if the council thought they could control the being, they might allow them.
The council tried to put a pawn on the throne before, and Shen Ra still destroyed the person.
It's also worth noting, Shen Ra is a divine dragon. I don't think it's as easy as being immune to electricity to ascend the throne. I suspect Shen Ra has powers beyond the base entry of a sky dragon. At the very least, even if you survived, I don't think that means you're accepted. You were rejected by the sky dragon and simply didn't die from the first attack.
Remember, it's not stated that surviving a breath weapon is the test to determine worthiness. It's the consequence for Shen Ra not finding you worthy.
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Remember, it's not stated that surviving a breath weapon is the test to determine worthiness. It's the consequence for Shen Ra not finding you worthy.
Just re-read the Shen Ra of Po Li paragraph in the Tian Xia World Guide, and you're right.
They are known as the one that watches over the Eternal Throne, flying down and torching with a wrathful fury any person they deem unworthy sitting on the Five Dragon Throne in Po Li.
Ok, so what if Shen Ra doesn't breathe on the Mythic kobold Monk in my hypothetical?
The Oracular Council dare not deny the kobold Monk outright, right? Else they would have to deal with Shen Ra, too. I doubt they'd want to chance that.
Maybe the Council adding another test ("You cannot become Emperor until you become a dragon" might be an acceptable condition or test) wouldn't provoke Shen Ra's anger unless the test is clearly unpassable.
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If you read between the lines in the initial history, the implication seems to be that...
Aolin repeatedly sandbagged on this until directly confronted by Shizuru's herald. He intimidated her with his dragon form and declared he would only relinquish rulership when humans proved they could become as great as the divine. This eventually DID occur when Aroden ascended to godhood, but Aolin found a workaround and continued to rule through puppet emperors in secret. He murdered his own sister to keep this secret, but her student, Pu Duo, investigated and despite several setbacks where Aolin subverted Pu Duo's allies and resources, was able to imprison Aolin, since thanks to the joint sacrifice of another of Aolin's siblings and a phoenix, he had resurrective immorality and couldn't be killed. Then he was written out of history in an empire-wide conspiracy to ensure his tyranny couldn't be repeated.
I'd bet money that Aolin already has or is on the verge of escaping, and should the "reincarnation" of the Eternal Emperor actually be found, it will actually be Aolin in disguise, ready to return to power and resume his plans to rule all human nations from the shadows and prove to Shizuru and the other gods once and for all that humans are incapable of governing themselves without the benevolence of their dragon masters...
On the other hand, this could be just another board of red string from me, like that time I thought Norgorber was masterminding Galt's instability to create a playground of conspiracy and violence for his faithful. I turned out to be dead wrong about that. <_<
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The Oracular Council dare not deny the kobold Monk outright, right? Else they would have to deal with Shen Ra, too. I doubt they'd want to chance that.
I think they might.
I very much get vibes of Imperial China (which is pretty intentional from Paizo I think) but for Po Li specifically I think it's the time periods in Imperial China's history were the eunuch's of the palace held the real power and the emperor was just a puppet.
My guess is that they probably would outright deny your claim to be the emperor. And if you tried to sit on the throne, you would almost certainly be rejected (even if you did manage to survive Shen Ra's wrath).
I don't think there is anything that implies Shen Ra gets involved outside of judging those who sit on the throne. The Oracular Council even attempted to put someone on the throne that they knew wasn't the reincarnation of the emperor and that person was destroyed, but as far as I know nothing happened to the council.
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My guess is that they probably would outright deny your claim to be the emperor. And if you tried to sit on the throne, you would almost certainly be rejected (even if you did manage to survive Shen Ra's wrath).I think you missed my point. I said Shen Ra DOESN'T breathe on the kobold (because Shen Ra finds the kobold worthy).
That's what I was referring to when I suggested the Oracular Council wouldn't outright deny the kobold the throne.
I think they might still try to pull some shenanigans, but I can't see them blatantly contradicting Shen Ra.
I don't think they'd let you have the opportunity to sit on the throne.
They'd deny you (because they want to keep the power) for whatever reasons they decided to come up.
Honestly whether your character might be found worthy isn't really important. Although I will tell you, as a GM I wouldn't have that be the case (see Jade Regent as an example, the players help the rightful heir to a throne take it back).
As I said though, regardless of whether your character is worthy, the Oracular council probably isn't letting anyone near the throne unless they're sure they're unworthy and will get themselves killed.
Also, we don't know what makes someone "worthy" in Shen Ra's judgement. But chances are the council would try to kill you before you sit on the throne, or while you first sit on the throne.
It's very much Imperial China, at the time period when Eunuchs would absolutely try to kill the emperor to get a different person (one they were close to) on the throne. In some cases the eunuchs were basically the only people the emperor would talk to, so they manipulated the emperor's orders and effectively were the ones in command.
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Honestly, the whole thing is probably an Adventure Path (like Jade Regent).
Regardless of whether your character or an NPC is the legitimate heir/reincarnation/worthy successor (as judged by Shen Ra) there is probably whole bunch of scheming oracles who would be trying to stop you from succeeding because they would lose power.
Yeah, something like that is the most probably answer. Some force is going to come in and break the oracle council, and if I was writing the story, that would make the leader worthy of taking the throne in the eyes of Shen Ra.
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I think that you have to consider that Shen Ra is right there guarding the throne.
NOBODY is going to resort to violence while someone has made it to the throne room with the intent of finding out whether they're worthy enough to sit in the throne as the new emperor.
Shen Ra has blasted many unworthies in the past. I'm pretty sure they're not going to let anyone else (Oracular Council) essentially make the decision for them.
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Honestly, the whole thing is probably an Adventure Path (like Jade Regent).
An AP? Maybe.
I could see an annual or biennial tournament that draws contestants from all over Tian Xia (no foreigners from across the seas, please) and the Oracular Council agreeing to let the winner sit on the throne (if they so choose) to see if the Emperor has reincarnated in an unexpected body/place. The people of Po Li could DEMAND such a tournament because they're tired of no progress being made in finding their emperor.
Sounds like the Ruby Phoenix tournament but with higher stakes.
The problem with that theory is that it presupposes that the Emperor is a powerful fighter....and if you're talking about spell casters vs martial fighters it's a very lopsided sort of contest.
Although, maybe the contest wouldn't be about fighting/combat but somehow challenge the contestants to determine if they are a "worthy" leader. Although what that would require would be very nebulous.
And again, subject to the whim of the Oracular Council who would probably skew it to favor what they want rather than a fair contest.
There's a lot of things that could happen, but overall it's all GM fiat because there's not enough written on the topic for a GM to extrapolate very much.
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I would love the NPC to be a tanuki. Imagine the party having to babysit this mischievous little fella who needs to be taught the way of proper leadership, but is more interested in gathering shinies and tying your shoes together.
Hmm... do you think I could sneak into Paizo HQ and write this for them without them noticing
I would love the NPC to be a tanuki. Imagine the party having to babysit this mischievous little fella who needs to be taught the way of proper leadership, but is more interested in gathering shinies and tying your shoes together.
Hmm... do you think I could sneak into Paizo HQ and write this for them without them noticing
I got Kung Fu Panda vibes
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The problem with that theory is that it presupposes that the Emperor is a powerful fighter....and if you're talking about spell casters vs martial fighters it's a very lopsided sort of contest.
The contests do not have to be totally about martial capabilities.
Every other year, there could be a martial (testing STR, DEX, and CON) tournament.
In the off-years, the contests could feature intellectual challenges testing INT, WIS, and CHA.
The winners get the same option...sit on the throne or not.
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The problem with that theory is that it presupposes that the Emperor is a powerful fighter....and if you're talking about spell casters vs martial fighters it's a very lopsided sort of contest.The contests do not have to be totally about martial capabilities.
Every other year, there could be a martial (testing STR, DEX, and CON) tournament.
In the off-years, the contests could feature intellectual challenges testing INT, WIS, and CHA.
The winners get the same option...sit on the throne or not.
Yeah, there are lots of "kung fu" challenges where it'd be better to have martial abilities, like batting away all the incoming logs or surviving a test of endurance (maybe even while forced to be silent). And ways to disguise a challenge, like did the competitor stop to help the drowning child or put their victory ahead of that? (And which is the right answer will say a lot about the country!) Plus puzzles that test for knowledge, wisdom, cleverness, physical strength, etc., where just having spell slots/high DC won't help.
I imagine a gauntlet to gain a dragon's approval would test all the traits that dragons respect (or fear). Since dragons are among the most well-rounded creatures out there, I'd expect both martial & magic abilities to be tested (and moral in the case of this dragon). There'd likely be some test re: greed or corruption, maybe several re: philosophy & administrative skills much like the ancient/medieval tests to join the Chinese bureaucracy. Then geography and regional knowledge.
So yeah, Strength, Intelligence, & Wisdom at minimum, with perhaps the other three stats too! Which of course means a high-level character that can use their level proficiency to achieve such breadth, and likely Untrained Improvisation (or a Rogue's volume of skills, though maybe they toss in monsters immune to Precision damage to weed out such scoundrels unbefitting of draconic glory).
Honestly, I'd say martial capabilities are unimportant.
Presumably the judgement of Shen Ra is about whether or not you are fit to lead the country (or maybe he's only judging if you are the emperor, his reincarnation, or maybe his descendant).
But honestly we don't know for sure.
But if I was the run creating the "tests" for judging whether someone is a good leader, being good at fighting (as an individual) would be near the bottom of my list. Being good at leading troops into battle as a general would be a more relevant skill, which is probably more Lore: Soldier (or something like that). Even then, while there were many emperors in history who became such because of their skill at leading troops into battle/strategizing, that didn't mean they were skilled at leading a nation.
Or perhaps the test is something like Avatar Aang did in the Last Air Bender, when he selected 4 toys that all the previous Avatar's had done for generations.
It's vague, perhaps intentionally so, such that a GM can make it whatever they want it to be.
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It's vague, perhaps intentionally so, such that a GM can make it whatever they want it to be.
The answer is this. The entire matter of the Eternal Emperor and the Oracular Council and the Five Dragon Throne exists as a plot hook for GMs to slot whatever character they want into it.
If the game revolves around finding the reincarnation for a virtuous and diligent spin on the Oracular Council, it's whoever passes all the tests that the GM comes up with to determine proof of reincarnation. If it's about getting the newly discovered reincarnation past a villainous and corrupt spin on the Oracular Council, then the test might just be beating up a bunch of oracles. If it's a pesky player that's too big for their britches that decides to sit on the throne, it's as simple as "Boom, lightning bolt from a dragon. You're dead, sorry."
If it's a pesky player that's too big for their britches that decides to sit on the throne, it's as simple as "Boom, lightning bolt from a dragon. You're dead, sorry."
Which, if I was the GM telling the story that's almost certainly what would happen.
I'm not going to make any PC the special snowflake (because the other players miss out). It's going to be an NPC. But if somehow the PC ends up in a situation where they can test it out...
"Zap, you died."
"But I'm immune to electricity."
"But not holy lighting"
"But..."
"So here's the quest to revive your friend..."
I would of course take opportunities to warn the character in game that they shouldn't just brazenly try a test like that, but if they want to disregard that and do it anyways, that's on them.
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I think that you have to consider that Shen Ra is right there guarding the throne.
NOBODY is going to resort to violence while someone has made it to the throne room with the intent of finding out whether they're worthy enough to sit in the throne as the new emperor.
Shen Ra has blasted many unworthies in the past. I'm pretty sure they're not going to let anyone else (Oracular Council) essentially make the decision for them.
I believe Shen Ra would deem anyone who cannot get past the Oracular Council as unworthy anyway.
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I believe Shen Ra would deem anyone who cannot get past the Oracular Council as unworthy anyway.I think that you have to consider that Shen Ra is right there guarding the throne.
NOBODY is going to resort to violence while someone has made it to the throne room with the intent of finding out whether they're worthy enough to sit in the throne as the new emperor.
Shen Ra has blasted many unworthies in the past. I'm pretty sure they're not going to let anyone else (Oracular Council) essentially make the decision for them.
I suspect Shen Ra isn't on anybody's payroll, except maybe Shizuru's.
Keep in mind that every single candidate the Oracular Council sent up to sit on the throne has been blasted into a pile of dust.
In fact, I suspect the Oracular Council and Shen Ra are very much at odds with each other. I'm guessing the only reason Shen Ra hasn't blasted them too is because none of them is foolish enough to sit on the Five Dragon throne.
If I were writing the adventure path
1) A PC wouldn't be the one to take the throne
1b) The PCs would help an NPC take the throne
2) The Oracular Council would be (is pretty obviously already) corrupt
2b) They do not want to give up power. They occasionally put someone on the throne to tell the public "hey we're trying" while retaining control.
3) At some point, it will become obvious to the Council that the NPC the PCs are helping might actually be a true successor and they will try to stop them/kill them. At first it might just be "tests" by the Council designed to kill the NPC before they get near the throne.
4) The whole thing will end with the NPC/PCs having to kill all the council members and other top allied leaders to completely remove the Oracular government that has been put in place.
Effectively, the council has been running the show, they are corrupt and don't want to give up power, and will do everything they can to stop a legitimate successor from being found (which mostly hasn't been necessary). The council knows what Shen Ra is looking for, but the public does not, so they put up unworthy individual one after the other.
I believe Shen Ra would deem anyone who cannot get past the Oracular Council as unworthy anyway.I think that you have to consider that Shen Ra is right there guarding the throne.
NOBODY is going to resort to violence while someone has made it to the throne room with the intent of finding out whether they're worthy enough to sit in the throne as the new emperor.
Shen Ra has blasted many unworthies in the past. I'm pretty sure they're not going to let anyone else (Oracular Council) essentially make the decision for them.
I suspect Shen Ra isn't on anybody's payroll, except maybe Shizuru's.
Keep in mind that every single candidate the Oracular Council sent up to sit on the throne has been blasted into a pile of dust.
In fact, I suspect the Oracular Council and Shen Ra are very much at odds with each other. I'm guessing the only reason Shen Ra hasn't blasted them too is because none of them is foolish enough to sit on the Five Dragon throne.
Considering the Oracular Council's reaction to the mere concept that the Eternal Emperor could be reborn elsewhere in Tian Xia, they are definitely at odd with each others.
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Oh yeah, I'm fairly certain the Council is at odd with Shen Ra. Shen Ra may or may not be aware. At least a lack of awareness would be one explanation as to why Shen Ra hasn't done anything to the council. Perhaps he is aware, but considers there actions as not having transgressed far enough to act yet. Perhaps Shen Ra considers the corrupt council a form of a test for the next emperor. There's little written about it, which gives a GM the freedom tell whatever story they like.
Heck, the previous emperor could have suspected this would happen, and told Shen Ra to wait and protect the throne from usurpers and Shen Ra takes it very literally and only intervenes if someone who isn't the emperor reincarnated tries to sit on the throne.
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This indeed makes for an odd stalemate where Shen Ra would annihilate any of the Oracular Council's puppets and the Oracular Council would kill anyone else who tries to get to the throne.
Ripe for PCs with a final scene of the party fighting the Oracular Council in the Throne Room while Shen Ra observes in quiet amusement.
Until the greatest bumbling fool / comics relief character, whether PC or NPC, accidentally lands on the throne and is declared worthy to rule with Shen Ra's full backing.
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This indeed makes for an odd stalemate where Shen Ra would annihilate any of the Oracular Council's puppets and the Oracular Council would kill anyone else who tries to get to the throne.
Ripe for PCs with a final scene of the party fighting the Oracular Council in the Throne Room while Shen Ra observes in quiet amusement.
Until the greatest bumbling fool / comics relief character, whether PC or NPC, accidentally lands on the throne and is declared worthy to rule with Shen Ra's full backing.
Yes, and now that you've said that, in my campaign it will be the emperor reincarnated as Panda person (a la a combination of Avatar and Ku Fung Panda)