Champion and Martyrs Shield Question

[dfinan]

Ok here is the question. An 8th level champion (Justice), shield warden and quick shield block using sword and a Martyrs shield. By my count, the Champion has 1 reaction his own personal one, an extra reaction that is a shield block only from Quick Shield Block, and then another Shield block reaction from the shield that is triggered under specific conditions.

Assuming the shield block from the shield gets triggered, can the champion also use his retributive strike on the same attack? If he can wouild the damage be reduced by both the shield block and the retributive strike.

Reading the rules, I assumed they would both take effect and reduce damage, because the two reactions are coming from two different entities. The martyrs shield an intelligent shield, and then myself. Recently had a GM say only one or the other. I didnt bring it up at the table, but wanted to check here to make sure I am intepreting things correctly.

Thanks for any advice suggestions.

[Baarogue]

First comes the trigger for your Martyr's Shield's Shield Block which is "...you would take physical damage..." except for an ally instead of yourself and is resolved before the damage is taken

Then the trigger for Retributive Strike is "An enemy damages your ally..." which would only trigger if any of the remaining damage gets through after the Shield Block. It would not reduce any of the damage your shield took. That is already resolved

Whether the shield counts as a different entity than yourself is a little too pedantic for me to say for sure but I as aGM would not allow you, if you had one, to use a theoretical reaction that would allow YOU to also Shield Block for an ally just like your Martyr's Shield does

[dfinan]

I get what your saying, so basiclly until the class feat that specifically lets you do both (divine reflex at 10 I think), it would be one of the other. At best, if I shield blocked from the martrys shield, the retributive strike would still only happen if any damage got through the shield block.

I wouldnt argue with a GM over not allowing it as its kind of a weird and rare scenario.

[Finoan]

Martyr's Shield is written very strangely in that it is the shield itself that is using the reaction, not the character wielding the shield. So if the character also has a reaction that could trigger for the same trigger as the shield, it would not technically run into the problems of Limitations on Triggers where each creature can only react to a particular trigger once.

But that does run into a lot of headaches and edge cases and I can fully understand a GM wanting to avoid all of that by considering both the shield and the creature wielding the shield as the same entity as far as reacting to the same trigger goes.

[dfinan]

Finoan wrote:

Martyr's Shield is written very strangely in that it is the shield itself that is using the reaction, not the character wielding the shield. So if the character also has a reaction that could trigger for the same trigger as the shield, it would not technically run into the problems of Limitations on Triggers where each creature can only react to a particular trigger once.

But that does run into a lot of headaches and edge cases and I can fully understand a GM wanting to avoid all of that by considering both the shield and the creature wielding the shield as the same entity as far as reacting to the same trigger goes.

yeah I am leaning torwards your interpretation "most GMS are just goign to say one or the other". As it keeps things simpler.