Elemental Purist Kineticist: Why I find myself torn


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

My Chaokineticist recently reached 6th level, which would mean she would gain the first feature of the Elemental Purist kit I had intended her to take.

HOWEVER, before I commit to it I need to know one thing:

Elemental Purist wrote:

Elemental Impossibility (Su): At 7th level, an elemental purist learns one composite blast as if she had an expanded element that matched her primary element. In addition, she learns one impossible infusion—a form infusion or substance infusion that does not need to be associated with her primary element’s type. If the infusion can be applied to her kinetic blasts normally, she can use it as normal. If the infusion is not an associated infusion, she can accept 1 point of burn as a free action to enter a state of elemental impossibility for one minute. This burn cannot be reduced in any way. While in this state, she can apply her impossible infusions to her kinetic blast, even if it is not an associated infusion for the blast type; however, if an infusion can be applied only to energy blasts or only to physical blasts, she can apply it only to a kinetic blast of that type. The elemental purist learns one additional impossible infusion at 11th, 15th, and 19th levels.

This ability replaces expanded element, as well as the 11th- and 19th-level infusions.

Standard Kineticist wrote:

Expanded Element (Su): At 7th level...If the kineticist chooses to expand her understanding of an element she already has, she gains an additional utility wild talent or infusion of her choice from that element, as if from her infusion or wild talent class feature, as appropriate.

At 15th level...if the kineticist selected her primary element as her expanded element at both 7th and 15th levels, her mastery of that element increases. For wild talents of her element, the kineticist gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls, as well as to caster level and DCs.

Would an Elemental Purist lose these bonuses, or would she gain them as well as normal for fidelity to a single element?

Elemental Impossibility suddenly seems a tad underwhelming, if not.


As Elemental Impossibility clearly states: "This ability replaces expanded element, as well as the 11th- and 19th-level infusions."

Therefore you won't get any benefits from expanded element, except those mentioned in Elemental Impossibility.
The only thing mentioned, is that you gain a composite blast as if you had an expanded element. Nothing less, nothing more.

There are some archetypes that replace only certain parts or stages of an advancing class ability, but it would say so in the description, which is not the case here.

The Exchange

No, you would not get those bonuses.

Overall it's a fairly even trade for any kineticist who was planning on focusing on just a single element. You delay your internal buffer in return for being able to choose an infusion that doesn't match your element at 7th level. You then automatically get the option to choose a non-matching infusion at 11th and 19th level. You trade the +1 to attack and damage for the same at 15th level.

It's all about the non-matching infusions. Not about increased overall damage. If you are a fire kineticist who wants to use an entangling infusion, or a telekineticist who wants to detonate, this is the archetype for you.

Scarab Sages

Toshy wrote:

As Elemental Impossibility clearly states: "This ability replaces expanded element, as well as the 11th- and 19th-level infusions."

Therefore you won't get any benefits from expanded element, except those mentioned in Elemental Impossibility.

I was hoping against hope that I somehow didn't understand as well as I thought I did.

Belafon wrote:
Overall it's a fairly even trade...It's all about the non-matching infusions.

Ironic, for a "Purist"!

I never expected nor said anything about "increased overall damage". My issue would be that A) you don't get the option of a utility Talent you otherwise would, and B) there are further costs and restrictions on using these Infusions at all when you've already given up other things for them.


I do feel that the archetype overvalues the option of applying off-element infusions to your blasts. Can anyone think of any particularly interesting combos they can do with this?

The Exchange

Melkiador wrote:
I do feel that the archetype overvalues the option of applying off-element infusions to your blasts. Can anyone think of any particularly interesting combos they can do with this?

Chain, Detonate, and Explode immediately come to mind. Entangling, pushing, or pulling at lower levels. And of course all the normally “Aether-only” infusions.

An elemental purist can use rare-metal infusion with any physical blast, so they don’t have to have metal blast to be able to overcome those DR types.


Most of those don’t seem particularly interesting to me, but applying composite infusions to regular blasts is something I hadn’t considered. I’m not even sure if that was intended. But it is an interesting thought.

The Exchange

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
Ironic, for a "Purist"!

I view the flavor of the Elemental Purist not as "my element is the only true element and all the others suck" but rather as "I have dedicated myself to the perfection of one element and now I can do things with it that the world believes can only be done with other elements.

As for interesting: that is of course in the eye of the beholder. If entangling normally with a cold blast isn't interesting, then entangling with a telekinetic blast isn't going to be particularly interesting to the player either.

The unique things the Elemental Purist can do with blasts are probably the broadest appeal. She can do Pure Flame (ignore SR) with any energy blast and Rare Metal (overcome some DR types) with any physical blast. Other unique options are mostly in the realm of doing things with simple blasts that normally require composite blasts (or vice versa). For example Foe Throw usually has to be done with a Telekinetic Blast (a simple blast) but the Purist can use, for example, Ice Blast (a composite blast) and do more damage.

When released in Occult Adventures, being a single-element kineticist was fine for an NPC but not particularly appealing for a PC. Two-element (or more) had access to a lot more options that could be useful in a full campaign. Elemental Purist still doesn't let you take utility talents outside your element but at least it gives access to a broader spectrum of infusions.

The Exchange

BTW, I had never really considered this archetype, but this discussion made me dig in a lot more. Turns out it would be a really good choice (for my playstyle) for one of those "I never got to play this but really wanted to" characters we all have floating around. In my case a healing-focused hydrokineticist. The utility talents I wanted were either water-keyed or universal, but I wanted a broader selection of infusions. So I would pick something else for expanded element. But then they would be at a lower level... Elemental Purist would instead give me a grab bag of infusions that I would use only when I needed to. Probably take the archetype if I ever get the chance to play her.

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