Should Smithing Weapons Count as Holding an Artisan's Toolkit?

[SpontaneousLightning]

When I was reading the playtest, one thing that I thought was really weird is that the runesmith must either have a hand free or be holding an artisan's toolkit to use their Trace action or at least one of their class feats (Return unto Runes). Possibly more class feats in the final version of the class too.

The class seems to have a lot of support for shields, such as the Shield Block general feat, a few runes that affect shields, and a couple of feats that help with the action economy with shields such as Fortifying Knock (one action to Raise a Shield and then Trace a rune onto your shield). But the 'sword and board' style of using a shield and a weapon is practically unusable. I guess you could forgo tracing your runes, but then you are not using half of your class. Additionally, one of the artworks that is being used to showcase the runesmith appears to be a dwarf wielding a maul, a two-handed weapon. Yes, I know that this was preexisting artwork. But why choose to show an artwork that doesn't fit the class?

A solution that I came up with to this problem is having the hands used to hold smithing weapons also count as holding an artisan's toolkit. What are smithing weapons? They are the weapons referenced in the Smithing Weapon Familiarity feat. So weapons in the hammer, pick, and knife weapon group. My thought process here was "the exact tools in an artisan's toolkit depends on what craft the toolkit is for. A runesmith, being a smith, would likely have them be smithing tools, which would contain tools like a hammer."

I was wondering what other people's thoughts were about this idea?

[ElementalofCuteness]

On one hand yes but wouldn't that be a little strong considered you can now wield both a shield and a melee weapon, tracing 2 runes as part of striking and raising a shield meaning you get 4 actions for the cost of 2 actions?

[SpontaneousLightning]

ElementalofCuteness wrote:

On one hand yes but wouldn't that be a little strong considered you can now wield both a shield and a melee weapon, tracing 2 runes as part of striking and raising a shield meaning you get 4 actions for the cost of 2 actions?

Fortifying Knock and Engraving Strike could just gain the flourish trait. That is in line with other single actions that let you do two actions at once (e.g., twin takedown, doctor's visitation, dastardly dash).

[TheTownsend]

I had the same thought, short of sticking to a free-hand weapon like a gauntlet or Engraving Strike becoming a mandatory pick, you're forced to choose between the things you're supposed to be good at.

Smithing Weapons Familiarity is also kind of weird to have there. The Necromancer one I got, but Runesmith already has martial weapon proficiency, there's only a handful of advanced knives (none of which particularly fit the flavor) and two advanced picks with ancestry traits, and the feat doesn't grant you critical specialization like the ancestry ones do. What do you actually gain out of this?

[ElementalofCuteness]

I value Engraving Strike as high as Diverse Lore, Red Herring & That's Odd, a bit too good but if it goes it be a big deal in the class. It's odd to explain but it is so good but not like broken.

[SpontaneousLightning]

TheTownsend wrote:

I had the same thought, short of sticking to a free-hand weapon like a gauntlet or Engraving Strike becoming a mandatory pick, you're forced to choose between the things you're supposed to be good at.

Funnily enough, I don't think that Engraving Strike lets you Trace a Rune without a free hand. All it allows you to do is Strike and Trace a Rune for one action instead of two. It is a really powerful feat, but it doesn't let you Trace Runes while wielding a hammer and a shield. Unless that shield is a buckler I guess.

TheTownsend wrote:

Smithing Weapons Familiarity is also kind of weird to have there. The Necromancer one I got, but Runesmith already has martial weapon proficiency, there's only a handful of advanced knives (none of which particularly fit the flavor) and two advanced picks with ancestry traits, and the feat doesn't grant you critical specialization like the ancestry ones do. What do you actually gain out of this?

Yeah it is kinda weird that this level 2 class feat feels similar in power to a level 1 ancestry feat. That is actually one of the reasons why I think making it so that smithing weapons count as holding an artisan's toolkit would be a good change.

[ElementalofCuteness]

Honestly I Agree now once you said on par with a Ancestry Feat.

[Squark]

Yeah, This class is running into hand economy problems. It seems like Emgraving Strike doesn't actually solve the hands problem (You draw the rune on the weapon first, suggesting you need your tools to do so), and Fortifying Knock doesn't appear to work for the same reason. The previous solution used by armor inventors who need a hand free while still uaing a shield has been to grab an unarmed strike like a Gnoll's bite or a Minotaur's horns, but I don't think that's what a lot of people want.

[pH unbalanced]

So I don't think that this is *not* a problem, but I do think it is more manageable than it appears at first glance. Playtesting will be key to figuring this out.

I posted this elsewhere, but this is a better place for it:

Rune Singer (trace a rune without a free hand or manipulate; Level 1 Feat) is usable once per minute. And you've got your etched runes preloaded.

I think you'd be able to trace on the first round, then fill your hands to fight, using Rune Singer + etched runes and get through most fights.

After that you'd have to start hand juggling (1 action Swap between weapon and tool probably the most efficient) which probably reduces you to 1 attack/rd + rune every other round.

I've certainly played characters with worse action economy.

[Squiggit]

Fundamentally the free hand requirement almost feels like a mistake to me. The class has shield feats. One of their pieces of demo art shows a character with a two-handed weapon. The class has zero internal language referencing or modifying the one-handed-only style of play like the other classes that lean on this restriction, i.e. the thaumaturge and Swashbuckler.

It just doesn't feel like it really makes sense with the rest of the class' design.

ElementalofCuteness wrote:

On one hand yes but wouldn't that be a little strong considered you can now wield both a shield and a melee weapon, tracing 2 runes as part of striking and raising a shield meaning you get 4 actions for the cost of 2 actions?

You can already do this with a buckler.

[n8_fi]

It's odd that Engraving Strike, Fortifying Knock, and Artist's Attendance all came in with the "Frequency once per round" wording rather than just the flourish trait. I suspect it's a simple repeated mistake since there are no flourish actions in the entire playtest and these sort of action compression abilities are almost always flourish.

I don't think it's necessary to include "smithing weapons" as artisan's tools by default, but I do think it works to allow it via the Smithing Weapon Familiarity feat.

Regarding Smithing Weapons Familiarity, it is remarkably weak for a 2nd level feat. There are a total of 6 advanced weapons you get proficiency with: 1 from Player Core, 2 from Treasure Vaults, 2 from Lost Omens books, and 1 from an AP. Three are ancestry specific. None of them are significantly better than the martial weapons the Runesmith already has access to. This feat is essentially just for Archetype pick-up as is, and even then its worse than the 1st-level ancestry weapon feats in most cases. Now if this was the feat that let you treat certain weapons as artisan's tools, it would actually be worthwhile as a 2nd-level feat.