Effective Cohort Level of a Tulpa Cohort

[Tom Marlow]

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/tulpa-cr-2/

I have a player that wants to create a Tupla for a fantastical Stand/Persona esk Cohort.

I am open to this if we follow the standard NPC/Cohort methods, and if they mistreat it (by having it die a lot ect.) I have story fodder for a reoccurring enemy.

I am not sure of what Effective Cohort Level I should give it. I was thinking 3.

Any thoughts?

[Azothath]

"cohort" search on AoN
the PC needs leadership feat, animal companion, or some such feat to get the cohort. Then it advances slowly. A Druid's Animal Companion chart is the "best" and others are at Lvl-2 or Lvl-4 on that chart. Familiars are their own thing with rules. Homunculus is the purchased familiar/cohort at $(50+2000*HD). Pets are just purchased animals.
If it is just a authorial device to inject info, and the GM runs it, just have it as a NPC party member. I'd keep it at CR=APL-1 (average party level){at 1st CR=1/2} so it doesn't replace a PC. PC evqivalence is APL+3 or so.

Generally Leadership feat gets out of hand in a long term game as the player attempts to maximize the benefit. So you have to be careful with the CR as noted above. Monitor Attitude.

[zza ni]

The way to not have leadership get out of hand is simple - keep it up with the rules.

(do note, simple doesn't also automatically mean easy)

the cohort and followers in the feat are specifically called out to be NPC as in NON Player character.

the players can have a say in the orders he issues, and as to what kind of cohort he look for and accept, they should NOT have a say in their build\use of wealth and decisions IF to follow their orders. they can try and influence those but only in game and the final say should be up to the GM (via the Npc).

It's when a GM give up his control over these things that the leadership feat tend to get out of hand.

A player should be able to say what he looks for in his followers\cohort, for example if he looks for for a healer, mounted archer or spell caster etc followers\cohort. Then the GM should have applicants come over to offer their services (or better have the player in game try and talk to NPC that he meet to see if they would become his followers\cohort). But how the NPC decide to allocate their resources (this include attribute, feats and wealth) should not be in the player's hand (unless they contribute to that in game - give items, convince and teach the npc specific things etc).
The more specific the player is in what he look for in his followers\cohort the more effort he would have to make into finding such help. An archer follower is easier to find then say a gold dragon with the tulpa template who is also a proficient in magical item crafting. a player who look for the first should have an easier time finding one (more so if he doesn't care for race\age\gender) then if he seek the later.( the game world might not even have a gold dragon with such statistics)

[Tom Marlow]

Azothath wrote:

"cohort" search on AoN

the PC needs leadership feat, animal companion, or some such feat to get the cohort. Then it advances slowly. A Druid's Animal Companion chart is the "best" and others are at Lvl-2 or Lvl-4 on that chart. Familiars are their own thing with rules. Homunculus is the purchased familiar/cohort at $(50+2000*HD). Pets are just purchased animals.
If it is just a authorial device to inject info, and the GM runs it, just have it as a NPC party member. I'd keep it at CR=APL-1 (average party level){at 1st CR=1/2} so it doesn't replace a PC. PC evqivalence is APL+3 or so.

Generally Leadership feat gets out of hand in a long term game as the player attempts to maximize the benefit. So you have to be careful with the CR as noted above. Monitor Attitude.

Sorry, I was not clear with my initial post.

The player in question has the leadership feat, but has not gotten a cohort yet.

At my table cohorts are guided by the player but controled by the GM.

Hope that clears up any confusion.

[Tom Marlow]

zza ni wrote:

The more specific the player is in what he look for in his followers\cohort the more effort he would have to make into finding such help. An archer follower is easier to find then say a gold dragon with the tulpa template who is also a proficient in magical item crafting. a player who look for the first should have an easier time finding one (more so if he doesn't care for race\age\gender) then if he seek the later.( the game world might not even have a gold dragon with such statistics)

So the way i would have the scenario play out is that the player would create a "NPC" with class levels and a pc race base. then reflavor it to be a bit more fantastical.

Then in-game the player would do an occult ritual to (leading to a battle and fun inside joke references) create said NPC.

So no monsters or OP creatures

[Azothath]

Tom Marlow wrote:

Azothath wrote:

...

If it is just a authorial device to inject info, and the GM runs it, just have it as a NPC party member. I'd keep it at CR=APL-1 (average party level){at 1st CR=1/2} so it doesn't replace a PC. PC evqivalence is APL+3 or so.

Generally Leadership feat gets out of hand in a long term game as the player attempts to maximize the benefit. So you have to be careful with the CR as noted above. Monitor Attitude.

Sorry, I was not clear with my initial post.

The player in question has the leadership feat, but has not gotten a cohort yet.

At my table cohorts are guided by the player but controled by the GM.

Hope that clears up any confusion.

As a Home GM you have control over what happens in your game and you'll need that with this feat. This is essentially Homebrewing a PC pet using Leadership feat.

From a storyteller/drama perspective you need to decide what emotions or philosophy the Cohort represents (as this is not a normal cohort). That will give it a goal, character, and tie into its weakness and method of expiration.

From a CR perspective you don't want cohorts upsetting the martial or magical CR of the Party as it is just one feat of one PC. The Leadership Guidelines lay out the level as they assume it is a skilled NPC with a class. Class and HD can be equivalent, same with CR but typically HD outpaces CR. At low level(1-3) the Game is more sensitive, so I'd use CR Lvl1:CR 1/4 and Lvl2:CR 1/2 IF you want to start with a "pal". It can still be a (base creature(animal type at CR 1/2 or less) with some Tulpa template features) just reduce the HP, Attacks, with no impactful abilities until its CR & HD can support those features. Basically it is a weak creature that needs the PC's protection at low level.

One mechanic to limit availability and impact is to have the PC attempt a concentration check(using Cha if no primary casting ability score) as a swift action at DC(10+CR) to have the tulpa manifest for (5*CL +1d6) rnds. This also balances the tulpa's ability to vanish from the table and be killed as it is not a eidolon or figment familiar.
Attended/worn magic items are going to be an issue as it can disappear(go imaginary). I'd make up Imaginary(+1) as a weapon/armor quality{exactly like Ghost Touch} so it can take stuff imaginary. Same goes for regular magic items (much like slotless).
You need to define a method to slay it(besides the owner's death or using wish...) tied to a defining or tramatic RP event in the PC's past and a weakness(see vampire) so that it has aversions and a bit more character as an NPC.
I'd add two class skills (along with Survival how that got left off animal type IDK) so it has uses beyond the animal/magical beast type.
Lastly, is it going to advance HD or take up a class? I'd advise doing both by alternating so at CR4 it'll have 2 HD and 2 levels in psychic or kineticist.

[Anonymous Visitor 104 506]

Tom Marlow wrote:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/tulpa-cr-2/

I have a player that wants to create a Tupla for a fantastical Stand/Persona esk Cohort.

I am open to this io games if we follow the standard NPC/Cohort methods, and if they mistreat it (by having it die a lot ect.) I have story fodder for a reoccurring enemy.

I am not sure of what Effective Cohort Level I should give it. I was thinking 3.

Any thoughts?

Since you're considering an Effective Cohort Level (ECL) of 3, that seems reasonable. A Tulpa has a CR of 2, which aligns well with the standard NPC/Cohort rules. Typically, cohorts can be up to 2 levels lower than the character's level, so ECL 3 allows for some flexibility while keeping it balanced.

[Tom Marlow]

Anonymous Visitor 104 506 wrote:

Tom Marlow wrote:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/tulpa-cr-2/

I have a player that wants to create a Tupla for a fantastical Stand/Persona esk Cohort.

I am open to this io games if we follow the standard NPC/Cohort methods, and if they mistreat it (by having it die a lot ect.) I have story fodder for a reoccurring enemy.

I am not sure of what Effective Cohort Level I should give it. I was thinking 3.

Any thoughts?

Since you're considering an Effective Cohort Level (ECL) of 3, that seems reasonable. A Tulpa has a CR of 2, which aligns well with the standard NPC/Cohort rules. Typically, cohorts can be up to 2 levels lower than the character's level, so ECL 3 allows for some flexibility while keeping it balanced.

Thanks for the insight!