Hello, I have a question about doomed condition.
The dying value at which you die is reduced by your doomed value. If your maximum dying value is reduced to 0, you instantly die.
If a creature has a doomed value of 4, does the creature instantly die even if it still has Hit Points ?
For example, Bandit's doom gives doomed 1, 2, or 3.
Is it possible to improve the value condition ?
Thanks for your future answer.
Errenor is correct.
I believe there are a couple of abilities in War of Immortals that add to doomed, one for the Exemplar and one for the Avenger Rogue archetype.
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Diehard will change your base maximum Dying value to 5. At that point you could survive with Doomed 4 because 5 - 4 = 1 which is above 0.
Things start getting weird if the creature getting doomed has regeneration, though. A creature with regeneration cannot increase to a dying value that would kill it. Doomed lowers the dying value that would kill it.
Things start getting weird if the creature getting doomed has regeneration, though. A creature with regeneration cannot increase to a dying value that would kill it. Doomed lowers the dying value that would kill it.
To be fair, all Regeneration does is restore HP at the start of a creature's turn each round, and prevents it dying from Dying 4 (or, extrapolating the rules, the highest Dying value that would kill it); if such a creature becomes Doomed by a value equivalent to its maximum Dying value, its Regeneration doesn't matter or kick in; it just dies.
The same would be said if it was affected by a Disintegrate spell or a Death Effect that would reduce the creature to 0 HP; Regeneration does nothing, and it instantly dies.
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Things start getting weird if the creature getting doomed has regeneration, though. A creature with regeneration cannot increase to a dying value that would kill it. Doomed lowers the dying value that would kill it.
Regeneration doesn't say that, it says:
"Its dying condition never increases beyond dying 3 as long as its regeneration is active."
I've always seen stacking Doomed on creatures with Regeneration as another way of killing them, like Death Effects or Suffocation (the ol' reliable).
What was unclear before was how Doomed interacted with just run of the mill creatures, since the rules say:
Player characters, their companions, and other significant characters and creatures don't automatically die when they reach 0 Hit Points. Instead, they are knocked out and are at risk of death. The GM might determine that villains, powerful monsters, special NPCs, and enemies with special abilities that are likely to bring them back to the fight (like ferocity, regeneration, or healing magic) can use these rules as well."
So what happened to normal goblins, which don't really have a dying value? Did they die at Doomed 1? 2? Never?
But the abilities in War of Immortals all point to Doomed 4 = Dead for basically everyone and everything, which is nice.
There's also a contradiction between Player Core and Monster Core regarding regeneration. The former says dying can't increase to a value that would kill you. The latter just says it can't go beyond dying 3. This contradiction predates the remaster.
There's also a contradiction between Player Core and Monster Core regarding regeneration. The former says dying can't increase to a value that would kill you. The latter just says it can't go beyond dying 3. This contradiction predates the remaster.
The interaction between Doomed and Dying should still work mostly the same though.
Imagine you have a Troll at Doomed 2 and Wounded 1 (it got downed earlier). A PC crits the Troll, which would send it to Dying 3. Because of Doomed 2, Dying 3 would mean death, and Regeneration states Dying can't increase past the point it would kill you. Therefore, the Troll is now Unconscious and Dying 2.
On the next round a Player increases the Troll's Doomed condition to 3 with an ability (like Zealous Inevitability or Piercing Doom). The Troll now dies since it was at Dying 2. It's Dying value did not increase, it stayed the same, so Regeneration doesn't kick in. The troll just Dies because with Doomed 3, you die at Dying 2, which the Troll is at.
It is a bit trickier in this example if the ability that crits the Troll is the one that increases Doomed. IIRC you finish applying conditions and then substract the HP, so the Troll would go to Doomed 3 first, which means they would be Unconscious and Dying 1 (since Dying 2 and 3 would kill it). But I'm not entirely sure about order of operations here.
By default dying 4-> death. So at doomed 2: dying 2-> death. And at doomed 3: dying 1 -> death. Your examples are skewed.Imagine you have a Troll at Doomed 2 and Wounded 1 (it got downed earlier). A PC crits the Troll, which would send it to Dying 3. Because of Doomed 2, Dying 3 would mean death, and Regeneration states Dying can't increase past the point it would kill you. Therefore, the Troll is now Unconscious and Dying 2.
On the next round a Player increases the Troll's Doomed condition to 3 with an ability (like Zealous Inevitability or Piercing Doom). The Troll now dies since it was at Dying 2. It's Dying value did not increase, it stayed the same, so Regeneration doesn't kick in. The troll just Dies because with Doomed 3, you die at Dying 2, which the Troll is at.
Oops, that's what I get for not checking properly. Reduce the Doomed values by 1 and it still works.
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I asked in an older thread here if giving doomed 1 to a dying 3 creature with regen would kill it. The first response I got was "No. I don't negotiate with devils."