MAP Question Re: Swipe, Vicious Swing

[Buzsaw]

Hi there,

I am currently discussing with my GM the wording of these skills, where it states

"This counts as two attacks when calculating your multiple attack penalty."

My GM is saying that if I use one of those attacks on my first attack, they get a -5 penalty, because they count as attack 1 and attack 2 as per the wording.

My interpretation is that there is no penalty roll when I use them, but if I decide to attack afterwards, the penalty is a -10, since that would be a technical 3rd attack.

Can someone let me know which interpretation is correct?

Thanks

[shroudb]

You are correct.

They count as two attacks for purposes of MAP, but the MAP always increases AFTER you make the attack (unless specified otherwise).

So basically it's Vicious Swing at +0 and then you immediately go to -10 for the next attack.

[Buzsaw]

shroudb wrote:

You are correct.

They count as two attacks for purposes of MAP, but the MAP always increases AFTER you make the attack (unless specified otherwise).

So basically it's Vicious Swing at +0 and then you immediately go to -10 for the next attack.

Thanks, I felt that I was right, as it would make no sense to do a skill with an immediate penalty.

[Finoan]

Agreed and seconded.

With both Vicious Swing and Swipe, you are only using one action with the Attack trait - the subordinate Strike action. Neither Vicious Swing or Swipe has the Attack trait itself.

So without that note that this one Attack action counts as two attacks, you would only increase MAP by one stage. And most notably, you would only increase MAP after making the roll. That is how Strike works.

So yes, counting that one Attack action as two attacks will cause it to increase your MAP by two stages, but only after the rolls are made and the action finishes. Because that is the only part of the general rules that these two actions override. They don't have a note saying that it overrides when the increase in MAP is applied - it only overrides how much it increases by.

[Buzsaw]

Thanks guys, these answers made him understand it better now.