
Toshy |

There is always the option to pick Feral Combat Training to be safe for using natural attacks as a monk.
Costs at least 2 feats though (or 3 if you want to include your bite) - WF (Claw), FCT - to get it going, so you might have to consider that.

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Why maneuver master? All you get is the ability to perform 1 combat maneuver at -2 as part of a full attack.
Mostly because flurry doesn't play well with natural attacks as people have noted. Another option I was thinking was Sensei to get Wis to attacks with maneuvers and then natural attacks either by Feral Training or later through Weapon Shift with a monk weapon.
One potential avenue for Man. Master is a pounce build that either starts with the extra maneuver as a trip so the attacks are potentially at +4 vs prone and ends with a grab off an attack, or a pounce that has the trip on a bite and ends with a bullrush so the enemy is prone and hopefully out of range at the start of its turn.

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It has some benefits, looking at the Style Shifter for the Panther wisdom to damage, but the limit to Beast Shape II means that it can't pull off trample at the same time, which would be truly epic. I should compare level dips against each other.
Edit: Maybe it does, will double check the wording in the archetype.

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Oh it does grant Wildshape as a druid, so Beast Shape III is back in play.
8th level Style Shifter would have Panther Style and Panther Claws free with the option of picking up Panther Parry as a level feat. Wildshape at lvl 8 means the Warcat of Rull is an option, so the full round action would be Trample --> Retaliatory attack with x2 Wis to damage --> taking AoO --> trample damage.
That is something to try to build off of.
Edit: Tiger Style may end up taking the cake here with greater overrun.

thorin001 |

thorin001 wrote:Why maneuver master? All you get is the ability to perform 1 combat maneuver at -2 as part of a full attack.
Mostly because flurry doesn't play well with natural attacks as people have noted. Another option I was thinking was Sensei to get Wis to attacks with maneuvers and then natural attacks either by Feral Training or later through Weapon Shift with a monk weapon.
One potential avenue for Man. Master is a pounce build that either starts with the extra maneuver as a trip so the attacks are potentially at +4 vs prone and ends with a grab off an attack, or a pounce that has the trip on a bite and ends with a bullrush so the enemy is prone and hopefully out of range at the start of its turn.
With FCT you chose a critter with a single massive attack, like a hippo, and flurry with that you can do truly heinous amounts of damage. Especially if you use dragon style.
With sensei you have to take 2 levels of monk.

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Just looking at different min/maxes. Mixing monk minus FoB has some fun effects sometimes.
Looks like Style Shifter + Monk of Many styles gets the meanest trample/ overrun charge build:
MoMS after Style Shifter wildshape at lvl 6 puts Bullette Charge Style on top of Tiger, then dipping Fighter for Heavy Armor proficency opens up the rest of the chain while giving a feat for Greater Overrun.
If I got it right with charge through in there, lvl 10ish should look like:
Charge --> overrun enemy 1 (at +8 from feats/styles) plus x2 str damage from Tiger Shifter Focus plus 1d8+ 1/2 AC bonus + 1.5str from Bulette Rampage --> AoO from overrun --> Pounce on enemy 2 (maybe with a trip on a bite and AoO when room for greater trip eventually)
But by then getting trample off of the huge Warcat or Rull means the pounce may not be as useful except when being medium or large has more advantages. And it stays in the theme of Tiger Style. Yay!