Wanted to clarify my understanding of how the remastered alchemist create alchemical items (whether through advanced alchemy or quick alchemy) vis-a-vis the formula level.
From what I understand, pre-remaster, the level of the alchemical item an alchemist can create is limited both by his level and the level of formula in his formula book. For example, a L6 alchemist who only has the formula of L1 elixir of life (minor) can only create a minor elixir of life.
In Player Core 2, the remaster rules say:
As normal, having the base formula is sufficient when Crafting upgraded types of the item
... and then goes to give an example of the elixir of life.
My question is whether this also applies for advanced alchemy or versatile vials, or does that line only apply for general crafting? In other words, can a remastered L6 alchemist create a L5 elixir of life (lesser) even though he only had the formula for a minor elixir of life.
As far as I know, all Alchemist features / abilities where the formula heightening thing matters are covered by the rules.
Check Quick Alchemy for the create consumable side that that, iirc.
In the remaster they changed it so you don't need to keep buying/learning/acquiring formulas for items you already know at a higher level. You always now are considered to always have the highest level formula for stuff you have learned.
This works with all of their crafting skills. So if you learn an elixer of life at level 1 every time a new higher level of that formula becomes available as you level you automatically have that higher level recipe to work with.
This mostly just saves alchemists from wasting a ton of money rebuying the same few formulas time after time as they level.
Quick alchemy has two options use a VV to make a consumable you know the formula for so covered by the above or make a quick vv and that auto heightens as well.
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Wanted to clarify my understanding of how the remastered alchemist create alchemical items (whether through advanced alchemy or quick alchemy) vis-a-vis the formula level.
From what I understand, pre-remaster, the level of the alchemical item an alchemist can create is limited both by his level and the level of formula in his formula book. For example, a L6 alchemist who only has the formula of L1 elixir of life (minor) can only create a minor elixir of life.
Yes, in the old days alchemists were known as a sad class for (among many reasons) the fact that the kept needing to buy new formulas for stuff they already knew, just to keep their numbers on par. As opposed to say, a wizard who learns Dispel Magic at the cost of a rank 2 spell, and later on just prepares it in a higher rank slot.
In Player Core 2, the remaster rules say:
As normal, having the base formula is sufficient when Crafting upgraded types of the item... and then goes to give an example of the elixir of life.
My question is whether this also applies for advanced alchemy or versatile vials, or does that line only apply for general crafting? In other words, can a remastered L6 alchemist create a L5 elixir of life (lesser) even though he only had the formula for a minor elixir of life.
Yes.
Advanced Alchemy uses the capital-C Craft word, and then goes on to make some exceptions like not needing to pay ingredients. But it doesn't say anything about requiring specific level formulas.
Versatile Vials -> Create Consumable barely looks like you're using Crafting anymore, but it has the helpful line at the end of the paragraph:
As normal, you need only one formula for an item to
create any level of that item.
Thanks! That’s how I’ve been reading it. Just that looks like Herolab Online and Pathbuilder doesn’t seem to implement it that way (or I haven’t figured out how to do it in the system) so just wanted to be sure.
Yes makes a lot of more sense this way. I have a wizard with alchemist archetype and that discrepancy has always been bothersome as he got past the beginner levels.
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I don't believe Pathbuilder keeps any special note. You'll have to manually update your formulas as you go, which is a bit of a pain to keep track of.Thanks! That’s how I’ve been reading it. Just that looks like Herolab Online and Pathbuilder doesn’t seem to implement it that way (or I haven’t figured out how to do it in the system) so just wanted to be sure.
Yes makes a lot of more sense this way. I have a wizard with alchemist archetype and that discrepancy has always been bothersome as he got past the beginner levels.
Maybe something they can improve in the future. There's so much new content streaming in right now, might be hard to find time to really re-engineer this to gracefully handle a (niche, but) fundamental rule refurbish.
Thanks! That’s how I’ve been reading it. Just that looks like Herolab Online and Pathbuilder doesn’t seem to implement it that way (or I haven’t figured out how to do it in the system) so just wanted to be sure.
Yes makes a lot of more sense this way. I have a wizard with alchemist archetype and that discrepancy has always been bothersome as he got past the beginner levels.
I'm not sure what the issue is you are experiencing with Pathbuilder. It's actually not quite what others above said. You don't automatically gain the formula for higher level versions of items you already know how to craft when you reach that level. They technically don't exist anymore. If you know the formula for the lowest tier of an item, that's it; you know how to make any version of that item when your level is high enough.
This change brought Alchemical items more inline with Wands and Scrolls which only needed 1 formula, instead of one for each spell level, or one formula per spell stored on them.
The issue with legacy Alchemist dedication was the Archetype limited you to level 1 items until you took feats to enhance that. While it mattered what formula level for each item you had in your book, it mattered more what your Advanced Alchemy level was (base level 1).
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Thanks! That’s how I’ve been reading it. Just that looks like Herolab Online and Pathbuilder doesn’t seem to implement it that way (or I haven’t figured out how to do it in the system) so just wanted to be sure.
Yes makes a lot of more sense this way. I have a wizard with alchemist archetype and that discrepancy has always been bothersome as he got past the beginner levels.
I'm not sure what the issue is you are experiencing with Pathbuilder. It's actually not quite what others above said. You don't automatically gain the formula for higher level versions of items you already know how to craft when you reach that level. They technically don't exist anymore. If you know the formula for the lowest tier of an item, that's it; you know how to make any version of that item when your level is high enough.
This change brought Alchemical items more inline with Wands and Scrolls which only needed 1 formula, instead of one for each spell level, or one formula per spell stored on them.
The issue with legacy Alchemist dedication was the Archetype limited you to level 1 items until you took feats to enhance that. While it mattered what formula level for each item you had in your book, it mattered more what your Advanced Alchemy level was (base level 1).
It's a usability thing.
As a level 3 alchemist, I want to pay the cost of learning the level 1 formula, but I actually want to see the stats of the level 3 formula.
Give yourself the level 3 formula for free until Pathbuilder updates it, maybe?
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Give yourself the level 3 formula for free until Pathbuilder updates it, maybe?
That's what I'm doing now, but it's not user friendly. Some of my formulas upgrade at level 3. Some at level 4. Some at level 5, or 6. And all those level 1 formulas are pretty cheap at later level. So you end up with a LOT of formulas in your book.