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So I'm noticing that there are only 3 Directive feats.
Take 'em Alive (1action) at level 1
Get In There (1 action) at level 2
Search high and Low (1 action) at level 2
Given that there is a "Leadership Style" that who's act of leadership includes "Issue another directive (In the spotlight) that seems odd to me.
Like, the main take away I got from the previews and everything, was that we would be issuing directives to buff our allies, but given you can't use the same directive twice in one turn. You HAVE to take one of those directive feats.
Also, I guess I just figured there would be more directives, given the emphasis they had in the previews.
Yeah. I feel like I'll only ever play Envoy twice as a result. I'll have a blast those two times! But a third time, it's just going to be stale.
You also get a directive at 7th and 13th levels, Steel Yourselves and Show 'em What You Got, respectively. I feel some of the Envoy feats should have been Directives too, but they took that out...?
Those are both time-limited, so not actually super relevant in terms of actual routine- especially since Steel Yourselves is mainly a pre-combat buff.
If you think that's weird. Go look at Operative's Overwhelming Strike (Free-action) - It can apply Off-Guard which makes the -1 Circumstance penalty to AC of Get'Em! pointless and only thing you get is the +1 to all allies damage. (And half Cha to damage for the Enovy giving you 2-3 more damage...)
If you think that's weird. Go look at Operative's Overwhelming Strike (Free-action) - It can apply Off-Guard which makes the -1 Circumstance penalty to AC of Get'Em! pointless and only thing you get is the +1 to all allies damage. (And half Cha to damage for the Enovy giving you 2-3 more damage...)
I wonder if changing Get'Em! to be an untyped penalty would be a bad idea. Off-Guard is easy to apply, although admittedly less so with ranged based parties.
I also thought the lack of directives was strange. If they want general support through feats that's fine, but the class as written makes it seem like you'll have a wealth of general support feats that juice a little extra when you do certain things (the whole directive schtick). Maybe some feat effects need to be lessened and turned into directives so the lead by example stuff juices them to their original state, idk
I wonder if changing Get'Em! to be an untyped penalty would be a bad idea. Off-Guard is easy to apply, although admittedly less so with ranged based parties.The main idea is probably to let you apply a weaker off-guard at range? And it still doesn't seem too easy to apply off-guard at range normally, so it has some purpose. But, also... why not just have it apply off-guard...
Possibly, or make the ability scale better at higher levels. Off-Guard is hard to apply at ranged for early levels, but at higher levels, it becomes quite a bit easier through spells and class feats. If you have an Operative or a couple melee martials (especially if they use athletics maneuvers often), off guard becomes a fairly common condition.
If you make Get Em! an untyped penalty, it stacks with Off-Guard and other penalties, making the ability not redundant in certain parties and actually very valuable.
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I don't mind the overlap with Get 'em. Eithe ryou don't have both in the same party, or you can spread the effects among multiple targets. There are ways to play around the overlap.
The lack of Directive feats just seems surprising though. It's a base feature, and the thing we've heard about constantly since field test. and there are a total of six. Three baked in as default, and the other three which are max level 2.
I too though some of those abilities they mentioned should have been nerfed down to directives, with the full effect as a follow the leader. And this should of course include more outside of combat stuff like "search high and Low"
How about "No one Dies today" you and all allies in range gain a +1 bonus on medicine checks (increasing to +2 at some level) "Follow the Leader" If your next activity is to perform a medicine check, including "treat wounds, or be the target of treat wounds, You may roll twice and take the better result. This is a fortune effect" or maybe make it some scaling bonus healing.
"Tag Team!" you target a specific enemy. The target takes a -1 circumstance penalty to reflex and fortitude saves until the start of your next turn. "Follow the Leader" if your next action is to perform an athletics check against them, then the penalty increases to -2 (-3 if you critically succeed your check) Letting you set up enemies for disarms, repositions, and grapples.
I expect future directives to be for things like take cover/raise a shield, reloading or drawing/using a consumable, both of which were SF1 things the envoy could help you do.
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I don't mind the overlap with Get 'em. Eithe ryou don't have both in the same party, or you can spread the effects among multiple targets. There are ways to play around the overlap.
This ability is supposed to be for focus firing, and it's your main feature. If you have a party who easily provides Off-Guard, there is almost no reason to use this ability. Spreading things out is suboptimal.
And "Don't have both in the same party" in a game with 6 classes is really asking for a lot. Operative unironically does Envoy's job better here. Off-Guard is more powerful than Get Em! is. Even if there were more classes, it's going to be a common occurrence to have both in the same part. I think it's bad design to not want a support and a striker on the same squad.
Actually Get'Em! Applies a -1 Circumstance Penalty to Reflex makign it still incredible for Area/Auto Fire builds as well as Kineticists and other casters that use Reflex saves. However I do think Get'Em! being single target is an issue, it's worse then Bard straight up, make it Full Charisma to my damage, please Paizo.
Actually Get'Em! Applies a -1 Circumstance Penalty to Reflex makign it still incredible for Area/Auto Fire builds as well as Kineticists and other casters that use Reflex saves. However I do think Get'Em! being single target is an issue, it's worse then Bard straight up, make it Full Charisma to my damage, please Paizo.
I'd rather the ability was just better for support. This is a martial support class, and we only have one other.
How would you make it better if i may ask?
Not Kitusser, but am also of the opinion that Get 'Em could stand to be improved significantly. How's this as an example:
directive, envoy, stance
You single out an enemy for you and your allies to focus your attacks on. Select a creature observed by you and either call to your allies or gesture. If you call to your allies, this action gains the auditory trait, and if you gesture, this action gains the visual trait.
While benefiting from this directive, you are constantly prepared to Aid allies within 60 feet on attacks against the creature, which includes attacks with a saving throw such as Area Fire and Auto-Fire. At the start of each of your turns, you gain an additional reaction that you can use only to Aid an ally's attack against the creature. You can use the skill you chose to be trained in as an Envoy (Deception, Diplomacy, or Intimidation) for the check to Aid. Each time you Aid an ally's attack, you choose whether to give your reaction the auditory trait or the visual trait.
Lead By Example If you attack the creature you selected, you hype yourself up and Aid your own attack, without using a reaction. You then gain an additional reaction until the start of your next turn that you can use only to Aid an ally's attack against the creature.
In the above case, you'd basically just Aid everyone's attacks, including your own.
How would you make it better if i may ask?
If this is going to be a main feature of the Envoy, it should be expanded at higher levels. There are some feats which do this, like Got-Em!. Perhaps making them class features instead of class feats you need to take.
Or maybe just make more directives, and give some free picks of those directives. Kinda like the Commander and their Tactics.
I don't particularly mind Teridax's idea here, although this probably becomes too powerful past a certain level, due to Aid's scaling. Maybe just swapping the circumstance penalty to a circumstance bonus, keeping the extra damage, scaling the bonus to +2 at some point perhaps.
But I think I disagree with the idea that all directives are stances. Some of them should be stances, but not all of them.
My ideas are going to be vague, and I am not a game designer. But I'm really against the idea that the Envoy themselves should be dealing more damage.
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Could anyone help me clarify how the level 14 class feat Do It Now! works? What is the single action an ally can take? Is it the action needed to fulfill the requirements for Lead by Example? If so, does that fulfil the requirements, allowing the rest of the party to benefit? If it’s not, what is the action the ally can take?
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So I saw someone online reviewing things and here's the update I saw to Envoy (which was the only class they really lingered on) Directives are now generally 1-2 action activities, with the 2 action version being the "Lead by Example" version which gives you extra perks.
Each Leadership style has a unique directive to go with it, and there are more directive feats to take, as well as reactions.
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But Directives are now only once per round which I think is a bad thing. You're basically telling a class, you're a standard Spellcaster now. Oh, wait, Spellcasters can cast 2-4 spells a round depending on action costs. I feel the limit and the fact the many Directives your your ally's reactions makes the Envoy feel liek a lesser Commander class from Pathinder 2E's BattleCry!
But Directives are now only once per round which I think is a bad thing. You're basically telling a class, you're a standard Spellcaster now. Oh, wait, Spellcasters can cast 2-4 spells a round depending on action costs. I feel the limit and the fact the many Directives your your ally's reactions makes the Envoy feel liek a lesser Commander class from Pathinder 2E's BattleCry!
... 2-4? You can theoretically cast 3, but 1 action spells are rarely good when spammed. And there is almost no way to use quickened actions on 1 action spells, much less two action activities.
Reaction Spells ARE a thing.
Reaction Spells ARE a thing.
So? Envoy has so many reqctions there's a class feature (or class feat? Not 100% sure) to give you a second reaction. You don't have Directive reactions, but that's because that's not how directives work.