Are Lagofirs supposed to be "Large"? Are Castroides supposed to be "Medium"?


Quest for the Frozen Flame


I'm Running Quest For the Frozen Flame, and I'm studying the encounters and monsters of the next book in preparation for a few weeks when we get there. I found something a little odd that I wanted to share;

Lagofirs are described as "the size of a large sized dog" which would probably make them Medium like a Riding Dog. But they are Large in size like a bear or horse. The environments where you find them (a cavern nest and a village kennel) are way too small for their large bodies. Without giving any real details about book 2, there's an animal pen that is described as "holding 12 Lagofirs," but it could barely fit 4 or 5. Maybe they are stacked on top of each other in a big pile.

Meanwhile the Castoroides are described as "beavers the size of bears" but all bears in Pathfinder are Large sized creatures. Then again, where you fight Castoroides would be very cramped too if they were actually bear sized.

It's not something I want fixed, I like having giant rabbit monsters that I can compare to Monster Hunter's Lagombi, I just thought it was funny.


Castoroides are roughly black bear sized but weigh less and, IMO, black bears are pretty much on as small as Large gets: I wouldn't think twice if they were marked down as medium. So IMO, the size seems right.

Lagofirs though seem too big at large: I'd drop them to medium.


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I wouldn't make sizing decisions based on the village map in book 2, as that map scale is laughably small unless every villager lives in a 5 ft. square house.


graystone wrote:

Castoroides are roughly black bear sized but weigh less and, IMO, black bears are pretty much on as small as Large gets: I wouldn't think twice if they were marked down as medium. So IMO, the size seems right.

Lagofirs though seem too big at large: I'd drop them to medium.

Black bears also used to be medium in PF1, so I wouldn't be surprised if the writer simply forgot that they got bumped up a category in the new edition.

I'd also drop the Lagofirs down to medium. Fits better with the description, and they don't have reach or anything.

I would however note that the 5-by-5ft for a medium creature or 10-by-10 for a large one is for battles, and includes having room to swing weapons, dodge and otherwise fight.
Living spaces can be a bit tighter than that, depending on what they are used for.


vegetalss4 wrote:

I would however note that the 5-by-5ft for a medium creature or 10-by-10 for a large one is for battles, and includes having room to swing weapons, dodge and otherwise fight.

Living spaces can be a bit tighter than that, depending on what they are used for.

Not if you ever want to be able to lie down all the way.

Like, technically if the interior dimensions were 5 ft by 5 ft and square, then you could lie down along the diagonal, but that starts running out pretty quick if you have walls of any real thickness and/or want to actually have any furniture at all.


... in fairness, it does say that lagofirs are the size of large sized dogs, not medium sized dogs.


Alright, I think I found why I thought Lagofirs were too big. I think the area with the animal pen lists the wrong scale. It says 1 square = 5 feet on that map, which upon second glance seems to be the wrong scale for that map.

The huts are too small to contain what they are said to contain. Most are 5 diameter circles, with a large family or business inhabiting them. Even in such a modest community, there are beaver dens that are bigger in this AP...

My guess is the map was originally 1 square = 10 feet like some maps from other APs, but then was made 1 square = 5 foot to make the possible fights work better, or was accidentally labeled incorrectly. If the scale was changed, then the size of the pen tracks better.

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