weapon shift and Shillelagh


Rules Questions


I'm interested in this interaction. Does GWS give the bonuses of ole shilly? I would say yes if it were not for the last sentence. Does GWS kick in before it ceases to function as a magic weapon? I know you would have better weapons by the time you get GWS, but could be really fun with a Green Scourge archetype.

shillelagh - Your own non-magical club or quarterstaff becomes a weapon with a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. A quarterstaff gains this enhancement for both ends of the weapon. It deals damage as if it were two size categories larger (a Small club or quarterstaff so transmuted deals 1d8 points of damage, a Medium 2d6, and a Large 3d6), +1 for its enhancement bonus. These effects only occur when the weapon is wielded by you. If you do not wield it, the weapon behaves as if unaffected by this spell.

weapon shift - When you use your wild shape ability, any melee weapons you are wielding and proficient with meld into your new form. Select one of these weapons; while in your new form, your natural attacks deal the same damage type as that weapon. Your natural attacks also gain all of the weapon’s properties (such as disarm), other than the double weapon property and the fragile weapon property; moreover, when using this feat to grant the trip property to your natural attacks, you gain a +2 bonus on combat maneuver checks to trip an enemy, but you cannot drop your weapon to avoid being tripped due to a failed trip attempt. Weapon Shift does not apply a magic weapon’s enhancement bonus to your natural attacks, nor does it grant your natural attacks any of a weapon’s magical special abilities.

improved weapon shift - When you apply a melee weapon’s damage type and properties to your natural attacks using the Weapon Shift feat, your natural attacks also gain the weapon special abilities of the weapon, such as the flaming special ability.

Improved Weapon Shift does not apply the dancing special ability or any special abilities limited to thrown or ranged weapons, and it does not apply the weapon’s enhancement bonuses to your attacks.

greater weapon shift - When you apply a melee weapon’s damage type and properties to your natural attacks using the Weapon Shift feat, your natural attacks also gain an enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls equal to the enhancement bonus (if any) of the weapon.

special note from magic section of PHB for polymorph - When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function).


the Faq on defending weapons say you must wield and attack with a magical weapon to gain it's abilities.
That mean that for this feat chain to work for NORMAL magical weapons it must count them as if they are wielded (otherwise the 2nd feat would have 0 effect) this goes to point out that a weapon with Shillelagh on it is also is considered wielded when using these feats.

Side note, You posted this question thread twice...


zza ni wrote:


Side note, You posted this question thread twice...

Really? Not sure how. Maybe the forum bugged when i hit preview to look at the bold formatting?


note: you need to close and reopen your browser after a minute as the forums can lag, especially with multiple edits/deletes. It's been a user/poster issue for months and I suspect it is the server settings.


Magic Item Body Slots(MIBS & MIBS for PFS) for non-humanoids kinda set what does and does not meld in a polymorph. A polymorph spell does not change the caster's creature type (usually still humanoid(human)) just its 'form'.

I'll also comment that spells on a weapon are a bit different that what the weapon is or is enchanted with as there are more interactions/interpretations.


Azothath wrote:

Magic Item Body Slots(MIBS & MIBS for PFS) for non-humanoids kinda set what does and does not meld in a polymorph. A polymorph spell does not change the caster's creature type (usually still humanoid(human)) just its 'form'.

I'll also comment that spells on a weapon are a bit different that what the weapon is or is enchanted with as there are more interactions/interpretations.

to attack with a weapon one normally need to wield it.

to gain a magical weapon special ability one MUST attack with said weapon which would also mean he is normally also wielding it.

the 2nd feat in the chain allow one to gain the benefit of his fused magical weapon's abilities, which would also mean he is considered wielding it and attacking with it. if that was not so, the weapon's ability would not have worked as per the FAQ.

that mean the shillegah spell, which require one to wield the weapon it effects to work, would work with these feats as they consider him wielding and attacking with said weapon.


The bolded line in the Sheillagh description is not about enforcing a special restriction on wielding it, but rather about enforcing a special restriction on who can use it (i.e. only the caster).

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