Comparing Stupefying Raid to Form Up!

[Subutai1]

Hi,

since both those tactics do similar things, I would like to discuss if the added bonus that Stupefying Raid gets is a worthy upgrade or not.

So the base is the same, which is 2 squadmates can Stride as a reaction. Note that the Stride of Stupefying Raid does not have to end in your aura, making it less restrictive movement-wise. However, since it has the Banner trait, you have to waive it around to give this command, making it a little bit more restrictive to the banners location. In both cases, affected squadmates have to start in your aura.

Now what really differs is that Stupefying Raid costs 2 instead of 1 actions and is an Expert Tactic. For that, you get an attempted Will save against all enemies the squadmates ran by. Failing this save gives those opponents the Stupefied condition. Multiple things I have a problem with here:

1. Stupefied is best applied on casters and those tend to have the best Will saves.
2. Emotion, fear, mental effects are often ignored since a good percentage of monsters are straight up immune against them.
3. Those strides do not ignore reactions, so "tagging" as many enemies as possible with those strides might be a bad idea.

All in all, I don't think wasting your precious Expert Tactics slot on Stupefying Raid is ever worth it compared to Form Up! Everyone who has played this game for a bit knows that the difference between a 1 action cost and a 2 action cost is very significant, so you better get something worthwhile out of it, which I don't think you do in this case.

Complaining is one thing, but I would also like to propose a solution that would be mechanically sound and still fit the flavor of this tactic. Add the following text to the effect:

-----
If both squadmates end their strides adjacent to the same enemy, said enemy treats the result of their check as one worse and on a fail, is additionally Confused for 1 round. A confused target is then immune to Stupefying Raid for 1 minute.
-----

Now Confused is a very strong condition usually, since it would allow an enemy to smack it's allies. In this special case it shouldn't be too bad though, since you have 2 party members parked adjacent to it. Sure, you could manipulate your initiative in a way that would allow your squadmates to still act and then walk away, but don't forget that any damage on the confused target allows it a check to shake the Confused condition and it would still be a big action investment moving away again. That way, at least it would be a tactic worthy to be called Expert and be possibly able to compete with Piranha Assault, which the current iteration of Stupefying Raid is not.

What are your thoughts on this tactic? Do you maybe have other ideas to make it more interesting?

[pursuing beast]

Stupefying Raid gives 2 of your allies a stride as a reaction, AND the stride needs not end at 30ft of your banner. Which means you can have a fighter and a rogue walk up to the enemy line and set up flank.

The stupefied condition is a rider. Even if nobody fails the save, your party got 2 extra strides out of the deal.

Also, if the mooks fail the save, it means they will have a lower perception DC against feints and a lower will DC against demoralize, fascinate, bon mot or any spell that target it. Not completely useless, but nice to have.

[YuriP]

The problem of Stupefying Raid is not about it giving "only" stupefied but the lack of prepared tactical slots in commander list.

There's no problem into have circunstancial tactics like Stupefying Raid the problem is that it competes with more general usefully tactics like Strike Hard!, Pincer Attack and Form Up! if we have way more prepared slots to put more tactics the more circunstancial tactics would have their space. The same could be said to folio, it's small, redundant and senseless. It's like we have a prepared caster with a repertoire, it only restricts without any reason.

[pH unbalanced]

I like to set my banner up on my mount, which I am not riding, to be sort of a mobile command platform. That means that I avoid all tactics with the Banner trait and that the "must end with 30 ft of the Banner" is much less restrictive, since once during the tactic I can move the banner 35 ft.

So Form Up! is *far* more useful to me than Stupefying Raid.

[ElementalofCuteness]

Limit of 2-5 tactics is what is stopping the Commander from having a huge amount of tactics that will see play. It is like a wizard who can only prepare 2 spells till they get expert then 3 with all their slots, doesn't seem like many other then the communities consider "Best" will ever be chosen.