I think what you have found for rules on the matter are all that there are.
Personally, I would allow Needle Darts to be cast for its normal piercing damage with generic metal that the character has on hand. Belt buckles or something like that would be fine. If the player wants to use special materials for the damage, then they would need to have bought something of that metal. I wouldn't allow silver coins because one silver isn't really a cost. But a basic silver chunk for 10 gp would be enough. Turning that into a silver dagger, or silver inlay on a shield, or even a silver hair pin that they wear would be cool flavor (or mechanics in the case of the silver dagger). But just having the silver chunk would be enough for the needs of the spell.
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As the spell doesn't list a weight or cost, it has to be of negligible Bulk and no cost minimum. As such, a silver piece is fine for use. Myself, I just get rings/charm for bracelet/necklace made out of each material I want to use and then I don't have to worry about it after that.
Now if you're playing PFS, they have an extra rule for this: "Any spells which require metal to function require the PC to be holding at least one chunk of that metal or an item made of that metal."
As the spell doesn't list a weight or cost, it has to be of negligible Bulk and no cost minimum. As such, a silver piece is fine for use.
It meets the letter of the rules.
It would be better balanced if the game also uses as currency a siccatite piece, a noqual piece, an inubrix piece, a cold-iron piece, an adamantine piece, ...
Not sure why silver damage gets to be free.
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Not sure why silver damage gets to be free.
It shouldn't be any issue to find a fragment of silver or cold iron of negligible Bulk [they are common]. So I'd argue it's not just silver but cold iron would be free. As to the other ones, as they are uncommon or rare it's up to the DM how the player accesses them and what cost they are for scrap pieces: for instance, even if the object in question itself has no monetary value, it might cost something locating it. that, or there just might not be any easily found free objects, so the player has to buy one that actually has a cost.
But the bottom line, once a metal had been acquired though, the player would only have to retain a negligible Bulk and no cost minimum piece of it so even if they had to buy Adamantine Chunk, all they'd have to do is chip off a negligible Bulk piece and they'd still have an Adamantine Chunk to use for something else.
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Now if you're playing PFS, they have an extra rule for this: "Any spells which require metal to function require the PC to be holding at least one chunk of that metal or an item made of that metal."
Just wanted to point out that this requirement has since been updated.
[UPDATED] Any spells which require metal to function (such as needle darts [page 144]) require the PC to be in possession of at least one chunk of that metal or an item made of that metal.
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I play a wizard with that spell, and I use a handfull of copper coins as a default (yes, I know "copper damage" doesn't do special dmaage to anything (yet), but I find it funny.) And because I'm THAT kind of player, I changed that "handful of coins" into a "fused handful of copper coins" when the metal came back to me... I didn't feel like it was ok for the metal to retake the EXACT shape it was in. :P But yeah. That's entirely a flavor thing for me. I'm also an oozemorph now and I keep a bunch of different metals in my ooze body, mostly handful of each type of coins (fused together) and a chunk of cold iron I found during adventuring. xD
1 SP or 10 GP isn't really the sort of cost difference that game balance depends on, anyway.
Then why the wording in Needle Darts? What is the purpose of having it worded that way?
Why not just have Needle Darts say that it can do damage augmented by any metal material trait of the player's choice when the spell is cast?
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1 SP or 10 GP isn't really the sort of cost difference that game balance depends on, anyway.
Then why the wording in Needle Darts? What is the purpose of having it worded that way?
Why not just have Needle Darts say that it can do damage augmented by any metal material trait of the player's choice when the spell is cast?
The requirements for the different metal spells are actually not very consistent:
You briefly swap the outer surface of the metal in an object with a suitable amount of a common precious metal from the Plane of Metal. You can instead choose an uncommon or rare metal if you have access to it or the GM has given you access to it.
- Only cares about access, you don't actually have to own it.
You grind a chunk of your choice of metal to fine dust between your hands
- Mentions chunks, which have specific rules meaning.
You shape three needles out of a piece of metal in your possession
- Only mentions a "piece", and a silver piece is by definition a piece of metal.
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I don't believe the writer(s) of the spells were trying seriously to balance or restrict these spells by monetary cost. There's not enough effort going into that.
The spells do respect item rarity, since none of them let you use a metal you wouldn't have access to in some form.
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Since you only need a sliver, and one of the ways to assess the purity of a metal is to slice a sliver off...
All you need to do is go visit some smith's under pretense of shopping for metals.
The simplest method for any of the metals is to go to a smith that works in that metal and ask for to get a piece from the scrap that's going to be remelted.
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Yeah, of course the smith still needs to actually have that metal. Not every smith has some scrap orichalcum lying around.
To me it's clear these spells care about respecting whether you have access to uncommon metals, and maybe you can do a little sidequest to get a sample. But that's the rarity system working as intended: you want something unusual, you do a sidequest for it, or find it as loot or something.
pretty sure no one is going to give (for free) scraps of valuable materials
Sure, but I noted there might be a cost to finding the material and even if there was, a negligible amount [1 oz] is as low as roughly 5 gp for adamantine... Not exactly breaking the bank. Sovereign Steel, the most expensive, would be @11 gp. Finding it is the hard part, not the negligible price/cost.
What’s the definition of ‘chunk’ again?
What’s the definition of ‘chunk’ again?
A Bulk L amount of it, so a lump up to 4.9999999 pounds of the material.
1 SP or 10 GP isn't really the sort of cost difference that game balance depends on, anyway.
Thanks to everyone for the information and perspectives!
Ascalaphus,
Do you happen to know where this rule is available for PFS?
I couldn't locate this rule on the FAQ or LoreSpire.
I'm in a home game, but it's probably the closest thing to anything official out there.
If you look at archives of nethys, Needle Darts lists a PFS Note "Any spells which require metal to function require the PC to be holding at least one chunk of that metal or an item made of that metal."
You can also go to Paizo/PFS/character options and click on [updated] Rage of Elements.
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It should be updated on AoN that you only need to be in possession of a chunk/item made of the metal to use it for Needle Darts, no need to be holding the item.
[UPDATED] Any spells which require metal to function (such as needle darts [page 144]) require the PC to be in possession of at least one chunk of that metal or an item made of that metal.