I have a monk player who took the fighter dedication feat. They asked me out of session if they could use snagging strike with their ki strike. I was a bit on the fence about this since it is a one action strike. Can you combo a special feat strike that takes one action with a ki strike like this?
Snagging strike (Player Core pg. 141/Core Rulebook pg. 145)
Ki strike (Core Rulebook pg. 158)
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No. The actions you can use inside of Ki Strike are:
1. Strike
2. Flurry of Blows
Nothing else that includes one or more Strikes can be substituted.
Ki Strike is not used inside of any other actions that call for a Strike.
Substituting special attack actions/activities into other attack actions/activities or combining them is not a thing unless specifically called out.
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I have a monk player who took the fighter dedication feat. They asked me out of session if they could use snagging strike with their ki strike. I was a bit on the fence about this since it is a one action strike. Can you combo a special feat strike that takes one action with a ki strike like this?
Snagging strike (Player Core pg. 141/Core Rulebook pg. 145)
Ki strike (Core Rulebook pg. 158)
You cannot combine because ki strike is not a Strike. It's a spell that calls Strike as subordinated action as part of its effect. You cannot substitute a subordinated action to other larger action/activity that have that action inside. You need to use that specific subordinated action exclusively.
An action might allow you to use a simpler action—usually one of the Basic Actions on page 416—in a different circumstance or with different effects. This subordinate action still has its normal traits and effects, but it's modified in any ways listed in the larger action. For example, an activity that tells you to Stride up to half your Speed alters the normal distance you can move in a Stride. The Stride would still have the move trait, would still trigger reactions that occur based on movement, and so on. The subordinate action doesn't gain any of the traits of the larger action unless specified. The action that allows you to use a subordinate action doesn't require you to spend more actions or reactions to do so; that cost is already factored in.
Using an activity is not the same as using any of its subordinate actions. For example, the quickened condition you get from the haste spell lets you spend an extra action each turn to Stride or Strike, but you couldn't use the extra action for an activity that includes a Stride or Strike. As another example, if you used an action that specified, “If the next action you use is a Strike,” an activity that includes a Strike wouldn't count, because the next thing you are doing is starting an activity, not using the Strike basic action
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I agree with the above. Only posting to narrow down the rule quote and provide more examples.
The important part of the Subordinate Actions rule is this part here:
Using an activity is not the same as using any of its subordinate actions. For example, the quickened condition you get from the haste spell lets you spend an extra action each turn to Stride or Strike, but you couldn't use the extra action for an activity that includes a Stride or Strike.
Similarly, an activity that gives you a Strike action as a subordinate action (like Ki Strike) doesn't allow you to instead use a different activity that includes a Strike (such as Snagging Strike). Because using the Snagging Strike activity is not the same as using its Strike subordinate action.
Some other examples of things that won't work:
* Replacing the Strike of Sudden Charge with Flurry of Blows.
* Replacing both of the Stride actions of Sudden Charge with Sneak.
* Replacing the Strike of Combat Grab with Trip.
Some things do work though because it is a permanent ability (or at least a semi-permanent ability with a duration) that changes all instances of one of those simple actions, such as Stride, Strike, or Step. Those abilities would apply to subordinate action versions of those actions as well.
* Ranger Flurry Edge changes the Multiple Attack Penalty of Strike actions. This would affect one or both of the Strike actions in Flurry of Blows.
* Fleet increases your movement speed generally, which affects your Stride actions. This increase also affects the Stride actions in Sudden Charge.
* Tiger Stance changes Step to a 10 foot distance. Light Paws uses Step as a subordinate action. A character that is using Tiger Stance would Step 10 feet when using Light Paws.
I will also mention that sometimes this Subordinate Action rule does seem a bit too restrictive. Generally it is a good thing because it prevents combinatioral increases in power where having the right combinations of abilities creates a more powerful character than the sum of its parts.
But every once in a while something comes along that looks like it should have an exception and that exception doesn't actually exist in the rules.
The best example that I know of is with Gunslinger and the Way of the Drifter. Rules as Written, you can't replace either of the Strike actions of Drifter's Juke with Reloading Strike. And that really feels like a synergy internal to Way of the Drifter characters that should exist.
More questionable and one I probably wouldn't allow would be to replace one of the Strike actions in Drifter's Juke with Risky Reload. That isn't as fully internal to Way of the Drifter.
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I have a monk player who took the fighter dedication feat. They asked me out of session if they could use snagging strike with their ki strike. I was a bit on the fence about this since it is a one action strike. Can you combo a special feat strike that takes one action with a ki strike like this?
Snagging strike (Player Core pg. 141/Core Rulebook pg. 145)
Ki strike (Core Rulebook pg. 158)You cannot combine because ki strike is not a Strike. It's a spell that calls Strike as subordinated action as part of its effect. You cannot substitute a subordinated action to other larger action/activity that have that action inside. You need to use that specific subordinated action exclusively.
...An action might allow you to use a simpler action—usually one of the Basic Actions on page 416—in a different circumstance or with different effects. This subordinate action still has its normal traits and effects, but it's modified in any ways listed in the larger action. For example, an activity that tells you to Stride up to half your Speed alters the normal distance you can move in a Stride. The Stride would still have the move trait, would still trigger reactions that occur based on movement, and so on. The subordinate action doesn't gain any of the traits of the larger action unless specified. The action that allows you to use a subordinate action doesn't require you to spend more actions or reactions to do so; that cost is already factored in.
Using an activity is not the same as using any of its subordinate actions. For example, the quickened condition you get from the haste spell lets you spend an extra action each turn to Stride or Strike, but you couldn't use the extra action for an activity that includes a Stride or Strike. As another example, if you used
Thank you for showing me this ruling. I didn't know about subordinate actions.