Cat Fall + Unbreakable Goblin = ???

[Ravingdork]

If I am playing a level 2 Unbreakable Goblin with Cat Fall, and I fall from a 30 foot height, how much damage do I take?

Is it 5 damage? Or 10 damage? Something else?

How might the answer change if said character were to land in a thick drift of soft snow?

Order of operations makes a pretty big difference in math.

Here are the relevant rules from Player Core for ease of reference.

Falling wrote:

If you fall more than 5 feet, when you land you take bludgeoning damage equal to half the distance you fell. Treat falls longer than 1,500 feet as though they were 1,500 feet (750 damage). If you take any damage from a fall, you land prone. You fall about 500 feet in the first round of falling and about 1,500 feet each round thereafter.

You can Grab an Edge as a reaction to reduce the damage from some falls (page 419), or Arrest a Fall if you have a fly Speed (page 418). In addition, if you fall into water, snow, or another relatively soft substance, you can treat the fall as though it were 20 feet shorter, or 30 feet shorter if you intentionally dove in. The effective reduction can’t be greater than the depth (so when falling into 10-foot-deep water, you treat the fall as 10 feet shorter).

Cat Fall wrote:

Your catlike aerial acrobatics allow you to cushion your falls. Treat falls as 10 feet shorter. If you’re an expert in Acrobatics, treat falls as 25 feet shorter and 50 feet if you’re a master. If you’re legendary in Acrobatics, you always land on your feet and don’t take damage, regardless of the distance of the fall.

Unbreakable Goblin Heritage wrote:

You’re able to bounce back from injuries easily due to an exceptionally thick skull, cartilaginous bones, or some other mixed blessing. You gain 10 Hit Points from your ancestry instead of 6. When you fall, reduce the falling damage you take as though you had fallen half the distance.

[Finoan]

I would likely apply the order for taking damage as closely as possible. The damage rules are geared primarily for damage from enemy attacks, but they do apply to all cases of taking damage generally.

Calculate the damage dealt. In this case the amount of damage is calculated from the effective fall distance. Which is in turn modified by the various feats and circumstances that change the effective fall distance.

Then apply effects that reduce damage taken. Such as resistances to damage or effects that halve the damage amount.

Finally, apply the damage to the character.

[Baarogue]

I would apply "treat falls as X feet shorter" effects first since they create the baseline for the damage taken and are an effective penalty to the damage. Unless something I'm overlooking says snow drifts, etc. and Cat Fall can't stack, I would allow them to stack. I would then apply Unbreakable Goblin since it effectively halves the damage, which is done after applying bonuses and penalties during Step 1: Roll Damage Dice, NOT during Step 3, Apply immunities, weaknesses, and resistances

So from your example, 30'-10' from Cat Fall makes the fall 20'. Reduce the damage as if you fell half the distance, so 20'/2 = 10' = 10 dmg

If you fell into a snow drift, it would be 30'-20'-10' = 0' = 0 dmg

[Ravingdork]

Isn't the damage for ten feet only 5?

[Baarogue]

Ravingdork wrote:

Isn't the damage for ten feet only 5?

Yes, my bad math

[Easl]

Yep. Here's how I'd do it.

Start with 30'.
[Snow drifts and other non-PC, environmental effects go here]
1. Cat fall feat makes it 20'.
2. Bouncy halves effective distance, so effectively 10'.
3. Calculate falling damage. Standard rule means 10' = 5 bludgeoning damage.
4. Apply bludgeoning immunity, weakness, and/or resistances here. In your case, none. Goblin takes 5 damage.

Reasoning: I apply bouncy before damage calculation because it talks about how to calculate damage from distance. A resistance or weakness is an effect you apply after you have calculated base damage.

[Luke Styer]

Ravingdork wrote:

If I am playing a level 2 Unbreakable Goblin with Cat Fall, and I fall from a 30 foot height, how much damage do I take?

It seems to me the order of operations is Cat Fall then Unbreakable Goblin because Unbreakable Goblin only seems to have an effect when you take damage from falling, while Cat Fall applies whether you take fall damage or not, but that's just my own take, I can't point to rules authority.

So if you're Trained in Acrobatics . . .

• Thirty feet (30 foot fall = 15 damage)
  
• Cat Fall ("treat as" 20 foot fall = 10 damage)
  
• Unbreakable Goblin ("reduce the falling damage . . . as though you had fallen half the distance" (half of "treat as" 20 foot fall = 5 damage)

If you're Expert in Acrobatics (e.g. Acrobat Dedication) . . .

• Thirty feet (30 foot fall = 15 damage)
  
• Cat Fall ("treat as" 5 foot fall = 0 damage)
  
• Unbreakable Goblin (not applicable because no damage to reduce)

[Squiggit]

Agree with Luke. Cat Fall effectively shortens the distance of a fall, while Unbreakable reduces damage, so cat fall goes first.

Requires you to squint at the words a little bit but seems like the clearest and cleanest way to interpret what's written.

[Finoan]

As far as I can tell, everyone has agreed with Cat Fall and distance shortening effects being applied first before damage reducing effects like Unbreakable Goblin.

Though everyone seems to say it in a slightly different way and for slightly different reasons.