Ignition cantrip in melee

[Giathan]

The spell Ignition has the manipulate trait. Which means it causes attacks of opportunity. The spell also states that it can be cast as a melee spell instead of a ranged spell. If you can do that then would that take away the manipulate trait? Casting a spell with manipulate in melee seems like a bad idea seeing as your cast could be interupted as well. So how is the spell supposed to work then? Seems like the text should offer a little more information. How do the rest of you read it?

[NielsenE]

It keeps the manipulate trait. Nothing says it loses it.

Its part of the trade off for getting the increased damage -- either you already know the creature doesn't have reactive strike, or you've had someone else soak it for you, or you're risking it.

[Jared Walter 356]

It would not remove the manipulate trait, but using it out of range of the enemy's Attack of Opportunity (AoO) would keep you safe. Most spells will have either the manipulation or concentration trait. Some will have both. The spell does more damage when use in close range, but that is the only real difference.

One thing to remember in PF2 is that most enemies do not have attacks of opportunity. It is no longer universal.

[Finoan]

Magus has the same thing. Nothing removes the Manipulate trait from spellcasting when using Spellstrike at melee range either.

Fortunately, not everything even has reactions that can punish for that. And even if they do have Reactive Strike (Attack of Opportunity), they have to crit the roll in order to disrupt the spell. If you are using Ignition in melee range, I have to assume that you have an AC relevant to the enemy's attack bonus enough that you won't get auto-crit. Otherwise the reaction is going to be the least of your concerns.

[Captain Morgan]

Lots of actions which you might want to use in melee have the manipulate trait. It is just the cost of doing business I'm afraid.

[Gisher]

If you want a damaging cantrip without the manipulate trait, I believe that Elemental Wrath is your only option.

[Ascalaphus]

As a GM when selecting monsters from the Bestiary, or designing your own, it's important to not overdo it with attacks of opportunity / reactive strike.

It's supposed to be a somewhat uncommon ability, that only some enemies have it truly suits their theme. And that doesn't mean "they should be difficult", because then you're gonna end up with every boss monster having it.

Typical enemies that have it are those that have a very "military trained" to fight theme, or that emphasize reach and area control.

For designing bosses, I think it's reasonable for most bosses to have a reaction of some kind - bosses should be a bit more dynamic than average monsters.

But it shouldn't always be AoO. Because then if you're a class that has more trouble with AoOs like a magus, you're going to feel bad in all of the boss fights. Which is bad - boss fights should feel hard, but it shouldn't feel like boss fights are the category of fights that your class is particularly bad at.

[NielsenE]

And similarly, if you're writing an adventure, campaign, etc try to avoid AoO/RS on enemies in your first couple of encounters.

After telling people it's not universal, so many intro type things put an AoO on an early opponent and make players think they can't trust that advice or that the GM was playing gotcha.