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Arcanist with 1 level of tattooed sorcerer and bloodline development exploit

As I understand the rules, the character would "learn" bloodline spells but having no spells at that level it would normally be academic

However the tattooed sorcerer allows basically a bloodline spell to be a tattooed spell

Question any reason it could not be an Uncasville spell?
Bloodline Tattoos wrote:
Whenever a tattooed sorcerer gains a bloodline spell, a new tattoo manifests on her body to represent this spell.

It is helpful to paste the exact phrasing of the ability.

Since a character with only one level of Tattooed Sorcerer never 'gains' bloodline spells (from their bloodline spell class feature) as that requires more levels in the sorcerer class, there is nothing really overly complicated here. The Bloodline Development exploit does not address gaining bloodline spells and only interacts with bloodline powers and abilities. Bloodline spells are not one of those things. To be even more concise, not even a Blood Arcanist gains bloodline spells from their bloodline.

Now, would it cool for such a character to have those spells on their body as tattoos? Absolutely, and there might be some wiggle room to discus with your GM as to how much they'd cost. Personally, I'd let someone pay the cost of copying a spell from a spellbook plus the cost of ink and the tattooists time.

Looks to me that Tattooed Sorcerer 1/Arcanist 19 should get:
1)Tattoo familiar, Varisian Tattoo feat
3) 3rd level bloodline power
5) can take Inscribe Magical Tattoo feat using your regular feat or through the Item Crafting exploit
7) You do NOT gain the Create Spell Tattoo ability as you do not get the bonus feat to trade
9) You get the Enhanced Varisian Tattoo ability
15) You get the 15th level bloodline ability
20) You get the 20th level bloodline ability

As DeathlessOne stated no bloodline spells so no Bloodline Tattoo. I would probably house rule that the character could use the enhancement power of the ability on magical tattoos of the spells gained otherwise. I would also find it reasonable to give up the 7th level exploit to get the Create Spell Tattoo ability.

Arcanist class
Arcanist exploit

(PFS Legal) Bloodline Development, Adv Class Gd pg 10:
Strength Normal
The arcanist selects one sorcerer bloodline upon taking this exploit. The arcanist gains that bloodline’s 1st-level bloodline power as though she were a 1st-level sorcerer. The arcanist must select an ordinary bloodline with this ability, not one altered by an archetype. As a swift action, the arcanist can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to bolster her latent nature, allowing her to treat her arcanist level as her sorcerer level for the purpose of using this ability, which lasts for a number of rounds equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1).

She does not gain any other abilities when using this exploit in this way, such as bloodline arcana or those bloodline powers gained at 3rd level or higher. If this ability is used to gain an arcane bond and a bonded item is selected, the arcanist can only use that item to cast spells of a level equal to the level of spell that could be cast by her equivalent sorcerer level (limiting her to 1st level spells unless she spends a point from her arcane reservoir).

If the arcanist already has a bloodline (or gains one later), taking this exploit instead allows her arcanist levels to stack with the levels of the class that granted her access to the bloodline when determining the powers and abilities of her bloodline.


they key is the last paragraph, and note the use of "instead". To choose this option the Arcanist needs another class with a bloodline.

Sorcerer Archetypes
Tattooed Sorcerer under the "Replaces" column, "1st-level Bloodline Power; Eschew Materials; 7th-level Bloodline Feat; 9th-level Bloodline Power". Basically losing most of its bloodline making it a poor choice if you choose this list of bloodline powers. The rest becomes class abilities of the archetype (requiring levels in Tattooed Sorcerer).

So what you are saying is that:

Bloodline development does not work with Sorcerer archtypes?

I think what he is saying is that it does not work with the tattooed sorcerer archetype. Multiclassing a caster is usually a poor choice to begin with. If you want an arcanist with a full bloodline that is what Blood Arcanist is for.

the arcanist exploit works with the arcanist's bloodline OR the other(second) class's bloodline in a technical sense, how well or efficiently is the trick. Choosing a second class which traded away its bloodline powers for class abilities (which the exploit can't access/affect) and then selecting that class's bloodline is a poor choice which is only compounded by not taking class levels in the second class.

My advice would be to just pick up varisian tattoo as a feat (once or twice) and skip the second class (simpler) as you are not getting much out of it and enjoy the full powers of the Arcanist's bloodline.
A second choice is to take only Arcanist 1 and Tattooed Sorcerer X.
Third choice(no preferred order) is to just take Varisian Tattoo once or twice and skip the Arcanist exploit and the sorcerer archetype.
With multiclassing you generally want to cover the primary class's weaknesses and with arcanist/sorcerer they are too similar, see Mage-killer build. The other choice with casters is to just say 'scr€w IT' and go Mystic Theurge (everybody knows you dumped casting power to be ultimate support caster).
Azothath wrote:

the arcanist exploit works with the arcanist's bloodline OR the other(second) class's bloodline in a technical sense, how well or efficiently is the trick. Choosing a second class which traded away its bloodline powers for class abilities (which the exploit can't access/affect) and then selecting that class's bloodline is a poor choice which is only compounded by not taking class levels in the second class.

My advice would be to just pick up varisian tattoo as a feat (once or twice) and skip the second class (simpler) as you are not getting much out of it and enjoy the full powers of the Arcanist's bloodline.
A second choice is to take only Arcanist 1 and Tattooed Sorcerer X.
Third choice(no preferred order) is to just take Varisian Tattoo once or twice and skip the Arcanist exploit and the sorcerer archetype.
With multiclassing you generally want to cover the primary class's weaknesses and with arcanist/sorcerer they are too similar, see Mage-killer build. The other choice with casters is to just say 'scr€w IT' and go Mystic Theurge (everybody knows you dumped casting power to be ultimate support caster).

There is a character idea buried in this that I am ensuring rules about. I know it will be a weaker build.

So, making sure I know what I am saying: If an arcanist has one level of an (archetype) Sorcerer build, the abilities swapped out for the archetype do not count as bloodline abilities anymore and do not improve/unlock with arcanist levels (via bloodline development)?
Jason Wedel wrote:
Azothath wrote:
{scroll up}
So, making sure I know what I am saying: If an arcanist has one level of an (archetype) Sorcerer build, the abilities swapped out for the archetype do not count as bloodline abilities anymore and do not improve/unlock with arcanist levels (via bloodline development)?

correct. The new class abilities would explicitly have to say they are bloodline powers or work like/as bloodline powers or reference bloodline progression. 'Replaces' is a one way relationship rather than an equivalence (two way relationship).

There is a whole developer line of thought that once you trade out('replaces') an ability the class no longer qualifies for a archetype/prestige class or ability that has the traded out feature as a requirement. I'll refer you to the copious chat about familiar archetypes.

see --> Archetype FAQ

addition: the spell tattoo mentions bloodline spells so the exploit Will work on that ability.

Okay, so that will not work for the concept. I can live with that (kind of).

2nd attempt: Cross blooded would still work as all of the abilities say choose one of the two bloodline abilities (or words to that effect)? or does the lack of an "s" in the Bloodline development derail it?
 
Will post the second part as a different question. Thank you for the clarification.
Azothath wrote:

...

see --> Archetype FAQ

addition: the Bloodline Tattoos(Ex) mentions bloodline spells so the exploit Will work on that ability.

spreading the bonus to your bloodline spells.

Same for Enhanced Varisian Tattoo(Su).
(on my phone so cross referencing takes time so expect editing delays)
The Arcanist has to expend a pool point to access bloodline powers past First Level(so both the above abilities). It is a complex issue.
Not addressing Crossblooded in this post.
Azothath wrote:
Azothath wrote:

...

see --> Archetype FAQ

addition: the Bloodline Tattoos(Ex) mentions bloodline spells so the exploit Will work on that ability.

spreading the bonus to your bloodline spells.

Same for Enhanced Varisian Tattoo but sadly Sor level = 1.

Sorry, sometimes I have problems comprehending simple things. Yes or No:

Does an Arcanist with Bloodline development and one level in Crossblood Sorcerer get to still progress as a normal sorcerer would (getting to choose a bloodline power on those specific levels)?

Also, a sincere apology. I am sorry, I feel my phrasing is rude, while in truth I appreciate your help in this. Just don't know how to phrase it without sounding rude...

the Archetype FAQ is controlling what does and does not work. Read it then apply it to Crossblooded.
Rule interactions like this take time reading and reviewing the various rules with a critical eye. It can be frustrating.
Note that the exploit explicity does not work with altered bloodlines so you are trying a run-around via multiclassing to skirt the Arcanist limitation.

Sorcerer Crossblooded archetype
due to the frequent use of bloodline references, yes, the Arcanist Bloodline Exploit should work with this multiclass archetype. The -2 Will save and loss of a first level spell will also apply to creature with a level in this class.
Nothing in the Ult Magic FAQs seem to affect this choice.

I think it is practical to mention that the text of Bloodline Exploit and altered bloodlines is going to give Home GMs a pause and rejection of an altered bloodline, even via multiclassing, should not be unexpected.
Jason Wedel wrote:

Sorry, sometimes I have problems comprehending simple things. Yes or No:

Does an Arcanist with Bloodline development and one level in Crossblood Sorcerer get to still progress as a normal sorcerer would (getting to choose a bloodline power on those specific levels)?

Yes and No.

Yes, an Arcanist X/Crossblooded Sorcerer 1 with the Bloodline Development exploit will get to pick (between) bloodline powers when their effective sorcerer level reacts 3, 9, 15, and 20. Be aware of this: You have to select a SINGLE bloodline when you take this exploit, so only ONE of the bloodlines will be treated as higher than sorcerer level 1.

No, such a character does not gain bloodline spells or bloodline feats that a normal Sorcerer would.

The issue is only complicated (involving complications) when you select an archetype that trades away bloodline powers for things that are not considered bloodline powers afterwards, ie Tattooed Sorcerer.

Thanks all. So the question becomes (IF I get everything), and this veers aways form rules question, but on topic

Choice 1: Cross Blooded: Arcane/Solar
+Familiar @ 1st level (goal)
-2 Will Save
-1 0 level spell known
-1 1st Level spell known
@ level 2 takes Bloodline Development

Choice 2: Solar
+Familiar @ level 2
-Uses feat at level 3 to buy bloodline development via Extra arcanist feat
DeathlessOne wrote:

... You have to select a SINGLE bloodline when you take this exploit, so only ONE of the bloodlines will be treated as higher than sorcerer level 1.

...

I agree, and the Arcanist has to spend a pool point to access anything beyond First Level Bloodline powers.

DeathlessOne wrote:

... You have to select a SINGLE bloodline when you take this exploit, so only ONE of the bloodlines will be treated as higher than sorcerer level 1.

...

I agree, and the Arcanist has to spend a pool point to access anything beyond the First Level Bloodline power.

I know that the pool point is incorrect with the last bit of the Exploit

"If the arcanist already has a bloodline (or gains one later), taking this exploit instead allows her arcanist levels to stack with the levels of the class that granted her access to the bloodline when determining the powers and abilities of her bloodline."
Azothath wrote:
DeathlessOne wrote:

... You have to select a SINGLE bloodline when you take this exploit, so only ONE of the bloodlines will be treated as higher than sorcerer level 1.

...
I agree, and the Arcanist has to spend a pool point to access anything beyond the First Level Bloodline power.

okay Jason, I am being overly conservative/cautious mainly as it is a rules thread and it is a work around. So I want to read the entire text and read it again to make sure the issue is clear as RAW is conversational rather than technical.

I agree that there's no access cost using the last option in the exploit. So retract that last part in my (double) post.

No problem. I think I will just go with a simple sorcerer for the level 1, My goal was to have the familiar at level 1 (see the thread in advice for the character back story)...but might just have to wait till level 2...
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