Hey!
First of all I'd like to say that I love that SF2e is going to be fully compatible with PF2e, but also will have its own distinct features. And, as a SF1e powered armor fan I am so looking forward to how it's going to be implemented in a new edition. On the one hand I realize that AC balance is pretty tight in PF2e, and even heavy armors' +1 AC is already a great boost to one's survivability.
On the other hand that makes me even more excited about possible ways it can be designed. Something akin to a temporaty battle form? An "advanced"-is type of armor with lower profeciency for most classes, but some unique perks? A rideable "minion" that one can command akin to the inventor's construct companion with Construct Shell? Or maybe something with completely new mind-blowing mechanics? I really really hope that such a cool feature stays with us in a new edition!
Share your thoughts on how you would like to see powered armor implemented in 2e! :)
Well, I think I posted something on this a while back, but I'm not entirely sure where... I want it to be kind of modular. Like, it would start out similar to basic heavy armor, maybe requiring a general feat on top of Heavy Armor proficiency, but then you could have features that you would slot into it, doing useful stuff but effectively taking more and more of your gear budget. After you get past a certain point, you want to start investing in Power Armor feats (there's probably an archetype). Eventually you could have everything from a really basic "like heavy armor, but the effective bulk is a lower, and maybe a nifty feature or two" to "Most of my cash and most of my class feats have been poured into this thing, and I took the Engineer class so that I could fit some class features in there too" and you're just a walking battle platform.
This is a space where I hope SF2e gets to really shine via modular upgrades: from what we've seen in the first field test, SF2e's gear is distancing itself from PF2e's runes, and giving weapons and armor upgrade slots instead of rune slots. In the context of armor, including potentially power armor, this hopefully means we'll be able to fit a variety of different upgrades onto our gear, and I personally hope for upgrades that are specific to a type of armor. If there were upgrades exclusive to heavy armor that would increase our carrying capacity, give us a strong backup melee attack, and so on, we'd effectively get to have that power armor fantasy by customizing our gear.
Effectively, I think powered armor should be a Construct that you wear, with its own set of hit points and that can be independently attacked. And when your powered armor is disabled (or killed) you are either going to have to get out of it or haul it around by main force.
That sounds like it would not be able to fit into most campaigns, so I doubt would be a very effective approach.
Well first edition Starfinder, the mech rules (which if you talk about fully powered armor, it might fall into that category) handle the shift in power by literally calling it an overt shift in power/level, and your encounters you face are a higher CR when you are expected to be in your armor/mech.
Pathfinder has avoided any such dynamic 'shifts in power level' based on equipment, but perhaps that might be a meta they would be willing to change for the sake of enabling various levels of play. (some have wondered if this might be needed/part of the implementation of Mythic play that is coming out.)
Something that comes to mind is, would everyone have to be proficient in heavy armor to partake in a powered armor campaign? Or could you have a set of powered armor that only takes light (or no) armor proficiency, but and it does a lot to protect you from damage and elements, and probably carry a lot more, or better movement options, but doesn't enable you to have the extra weapon or special defensive slots. (or doesn't grant you access to readily use them, if the armor technically still has them)
Its true that another option would be to have an archetype that grants heavy armor proficiency, and give everyone that archetype as a free archetype, but that sort of dilutes the differences between character concepts, and probably would mean that the classes that already had heavy armor proficiency will probably be weaker, since the archetype won't do as much for them. Basically, will it be possible to have a non-martial partake in a powered armor campaign, without looking/behaving like they have become a martial character by default?
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Basically, will it be possible to have a non-martial partake in a powered armor campaign, without looking/behaving like they have become a martial character by default?
Flavor-wise I think it falls under everyone using guns or spall caster casting gun. But also there are already types of power armor designed for non-martial classes, such as Spellcaster's Aegis (Hybrid) or Sci-shield Unit.
What might help is if there were non-combat reasons for needing power armor like going to a planet with higher gravity. If you just going to a high-gravity planet for a short mission as part of a longer campaign, then instead of the PCs investing in power armor and the feat needed to use it, a free archetype and loaner gear from whoever is sending you on the mission would make it so you don't have to build your characters around using power armor. Also could give access to it at a lower level.
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We're talking about characters walking around in essentially mini-tanks. There has to be a set of rules for it or you have to just exclude it from the scenarios.
But players won't like being not allowed to do something that's integral to many scifi books, shows, and movies. IMO it's gotta be covered and it's gotta be allowed to work and appropriately scaled so you can mixes of powered-armor clad and other characters.
If you get to giant size mechs, those are vehicles, not armor, and there needs to be a workable vehicle combat system.
It may be a crazy goal but I'd love to see a scenario where one of the PCs is in power armor, one is in a mech, one running around normally, one is driving a land vehicle, and one is flying a ship, all in the same combat. Might not be attainable or not, but throwing it all on the table and giving it a try might lead to finding a way to have the maximum number of variables working together.
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Definitely want to see that playtested to ensure it doesn't just result in one or more characters just getting squished every time before it appears in an adventure MY character is in.
How well do you expect medium-scale characters, even with armor, to stand up to weapons designed to attack ships?
I don't, weapons designed to take on ships are not good at aiming at small targets. I think smaller ships should have separate anti-personal guns, or dule stats for their weapons for vs ship or vs personal, or for larger ships have their weapons act as bombardments doing indirect fire and could provide suppressive fire or covering fire, or do area of effect damage like a grenade with saving throws vs it.
In my example above, the person flying the spaceship would likely go after the mech or vehicle, and then need to land and go on foot to deal with the people taking cover which makes it hard to even spot from a moving ship.
We already have this situation with Mech what happens if everyone in the party is not using mechs? With the tighter math in 2e rules, that difference is even more of an issue. "If" this can be solved for mech battles then I see no reason it couldn't be expanded to mix all types of combat. It could be as simple as giving ship/mech/vehicle weapons separate stats for anti big metal things and anti-personal.
Where pre-playtest at this point, it's the best time to just throw out all the ideas you can no matter how crazy they might be.
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I don't think these are absurd scenarios they are very common in movies. Have you seen Mandalorians fight? Have jet pack will take on ship. In one of my favorite episodes of The Clone Wars Anakin's fleet is outnumbered so they land tanks directly on the surface of one of the other enemy capital ships. Could be done with mechs too. A large mech is bigger than the smallest spaceships in the game.
Hiding from a ship overhead is a good choice but if there's no actual threat from it in the game why hide?
It's not uncommon for Star Wars Rebels to have people on foot, being chased by walkers, and tie fighters, while the Ghost takes on the walkers and tie fighters, and shooting at the stormtroopers too. There's lots of mixed combat at the end of Rouge One.
Typically a PC would not just randomly carrier a shoulder-fired anti-ship rocket, but for a big battle scenario there is no reason why they could not be provided by whoever the PCs are fighting for. There could be ground-based anti-ship laser gun batteries the PCs could use to fight the ships flying around.
A single ship trying to hit a single person would be hard but having the PCs in a single ship trying to thin out a mass swarm attack to protect a group of NPCs on the ground before landing and joining the fight.
There are lots of possibilities, but the end results will be either each encounter only uses one type of combat, or somehow a way to mix them or parts of them is found. I don't know if Paizo wants to mix different types of combat, but they have said they want to make them not feel like different games. The closer you get to them not feeling different the more likely they could be compatible. Even if they do make them all work together it might not be a core rule book option.
Real life combat engagements have infantry, armoured and aircraft sometimes operating on the same battlefield. Infantry are good for things that cannot be done with tanks or planes. Different tools for different jobs. Having this be a possibility in game doesn't break anything.
Sure small arms fire isn't going to take out a tank, but a tank's cannon is useless against close range targets and also a big fat juicy target for anti tank weaponry.
Air to ground missiles are generally reserved for taking out fortified positions or tanks. Aircraft cannons are great area attacks and are a larger calibre than is used by infantry but suitably advanced armour in a science fantasy setting may take that into account.
I think what is more important is highlighting being in the big mech or plane is not always the best possibility and can be equally vulnerable to infantry prepared with the right weaponry. Spaceship combat may be a little different but at that point they should probably be treated as hazards like Kaiju in P2e.
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I recently just finished playing in a scenario where we had to use skill checks to call in artillery strikes. That's a really simple way to give the PCs access to firepower they normally could not carry.
This could be a good use for mechanics, one of the new tactics in the Yukarine war is to use off-the-shelf drones and fly them through open hatches in tanks, at that point even a small explosive will stop the tank.
I wasn't aware of the Kaijiu hazards that's an interesting option. something like "Collapsing Structure (Mogaru)" might work for buildings hit by orbital bombardment or any big weapon. Having a group of battlefield hazards that could be used as huge weapon effects could help a lot in trying to mix different types of combat.
Another thought I had was combat with a colossal ship could be run like a castle siege. The PCs are either attacking or defending a small portion of it as part of a larger battle.
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Personally wouldn't mind seeing Powered Armor work similarly to how shields work in pf2e. Maybe +1 to AC and a Hardness value to reduce incoming damage and remaining damage hits both the suit and the bearer, or just have the suit impose a DR value from 1 to 3 on specific damage types. Upgrades can alter/increase said DR types as well as any other fearures.