Are apparitions too real?

[Outl]

There seems to be some inconsistency in the class concept, in its theme. Sometimes apparitions can interact with the world on their own, sometimes they can't.

I see that Animists "Talk to spiritual entities only you can perceive"

and "Apparitions are spiritual entities who generally lack (any way) to enter or affect the physical world."

and "Animists gain their power by serving as a bridge for (apparitions) to commune and interact with the physical world."

But then the abilities don't match that. Apparitions seem more than capable of interacting with both people and things on their own. Grasping Spirits Spell actually drags people around, sometimes even more effectively than a Distant Grasp psychic could do, or more powerfully than PF1 magic spells, let alone PF2 magic spells.

Also some of the vessel spells such as Earth's Bile and River Carving Mountains have the apparitions becoming quite solid and manipulating the environment. Discomfiting Whispers definitely has them being perceived, and even causes real damage to people.

When the apparitions are aiding, guiding, and inspiring the Animist himself, they make sense. They might even use him as a bridge, such as by possessing his body for awhile. I believe the old Medium class had them work in that way. But now that they go around interacting with the world on their own, that seems inconsistent with the whole concept.

[Squiggit]

I'm not really seeing a problem or inconsistency here. Like the third line right there sums it up, the animist acts as a bridge. Which is exactly what's happening when you channel their powers in the spells you've described.

[Temperans]

I think the point they are making is that the descriptions are putting too much focus on the spirits interacting with the world directly. When the class is making it seem like they shouldn't be able to do any of that.

Like a ghost wouldn't be able to interact with the physical world outside of ghost touch or a lot of effort/magic. But the animist feats make it seem like they can do anything just fine.

[Rysky]

Correct. The specific character of that specific class taking a feat or a spell allows them to do something non-standard.

That's what "generally" means.

[breithauptclan]

Yeah. I'm also on the side of:

Apparitions normally can't interact with the physical world. They have no one (other than maybe each other) to talk to, and can't cause effects to happen.

Then an Animist comes along and serves as a bridge between the Apparitions and the physical world. Now the Apparitions do have someone that they can talk to. And they can cause things to happen - either indirectly through the Animist, or sometimes somewhat more directly. Because there is an Animist that is attuning to them and sharing physical world power with them in order to gain Apparition power in return.

[Outl]

If the apparitions can directly interact with the world when the animist is around, does that make Animist a pet class, similar to a Summoner?

[Lanni Talimbi]

Well, Shaman is considered one of the predecessor classes that Animist is getting inspiration from.

But Animist abilities aren't creating a minion creature. So I wouldn't call it a 'pet' class like Summoner or Wild Order Druid or even Witch. The Animist abilities that you mention aren't even creating something as tangible as an Incarnate spell does.

[keftiu]

Outl wrote:

If the apparitions can directly interact with the world when the animist is around, does that make Animist a pet class, similar to a Summoner?

Your Apparition isn't taking up space on the battlemap.

[The Raven Black]

Outl wrote:

If the apparitions can directly interact with the world when the animist is around, does that make Animist a pet class, similar to a Summoner?

The Animist is indeed similar to the Summoner in that both allow a spirit/creature from outside the material world to interact with it.

But the Summoner actually helps the Eidolon incarnate in the world, whereas the Animist allows the Apparitions to affect the world but in less direct ways.