Only the Worthy

[Ifusaso]

I didn't see this ability mentioned yet, but it seems obtuse in being overly specific. I don't think it's the most powerful ability out there, but I could see it becoming problematic.

First off, I love the theming. I loved Thor: Ragnarok and Age of Ultron as much as the next nerd.

That being said, once you have deemed that your ikon to be 8,000 lbs of immovable, the only option given for escaping it is an Athletics check. Many monsters aren't statted to have a significant Athletics value at all, and many creatures that rely on mobility will have less Strength than needed to compete with this ability. Most effects that immobilize allow an Escape check using the creature's best of Acrobatics, Athletics or Unarmed and there doesn't seem to be good justification for why that isn't the case here.

Text for reference:

War of Immortals Class Playtest, p26 wrote:

You can designate your ikons as movable by only your own hand, leaving them fixed in place as surely as if they were lodged in stone. Whenever you Release either your worn or weapon ikon, you can spend an action to command it to remain motionless. While motionless, the ikon can be moved only if 8,000 pounds of pressure are applied to it or if a creature uses Athletics to Force Open the ikon with a DC equal to your class DC. You can Release your ikon over an adjacent prone enemy to hold them down with the ikon’s motionlessness— while so Released, you can’t use the ikon, but the enemy must succeed at the Athletics check to Stand or to move. The ikon automatically flies back to your hand when the effect is broken or if you spend an Interact action to hold out a hand and draw it back.

[QuidEst]

Well, it is Only the Worthy. I definitely appreciate it only being functionally escapable by strong enemies.

You get this at 4th. Class DC is going to be 20 (4 level + 2 trained + 4 stat + 10 for DC), which means a 0 strength untrained creature is stuck for 20 actions until rolling a 20, a +1 strength untrained creature is stuck for 10 actions, and anyone trained is stuck for one or two actions. In another four or five levels, the strength advantage enemies have is cleared out, and enemies are either trained or rolling for a 20.

Force Open doesn't take MAP, so it can be tried repeatedly. A success breaks the object (or at least damages it), so there should probably be some clarifying text that it flies back to you undamaged.

[Darth Grall]

QuidEst wrote:

Force Open doesn't take MAP, so it can be tried repeatedly.

Pretty sure it has the attack trait and would be subject to it yeah?

QuidEst wrote:

A success breaks the object (or at least damages it), so there should probably be some clarifying text that it flies back to you undamaged.

In terms of RAW, I'd agree it some clarification. Force Open doesn't even really make sense here since it's not a "a door, window, container or heavy gate either" nor a wall and I certainly wouldn't apply a penalty for them not using a crowbar. I think it's only called out here to piggyback on an existing action that has the attack trait. RAI, I think that it doesn't grok as you're breaking it; since you're more forcing it to move as opposed to breaking a physical mechanism so once it is broken it should return automatically when broken as it says.

As an aside, though I do wonder if it might be easier for some foes to just damage/destroy the item instead since it's unattended it can be attacked. Especially for a worn Ikon that seems not favorable. Wonder if they might need to address that in some way.

[QuidEst]

No attack trait.

[VitaminCee]

QuidEst wrote:

No attack trait.

Did you just say that force open action doesn’t have the attack trait, while linking proof that it actually does have the attack trait? Absolute power move lol.

[QuidEst]

VitaminCee wrote:

QuidEst wrote:

No attack trait.

Did you just say that force open action doesn’t have the attack trait, while linking proof that it actually does have the attack trait? Absolute power move lol.

... I double-checked to make sure I wouldn't look like an idiot if it were right there. But it definitely is right there, so now I look like an idiot.

[25speedforseaweedleshy]

pretty sure the 8000 thing is journey to the west reference

https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=34

force open does have attack trait

so any action wasted on it would be extra valuable

[Darth Grall]

QuidEst wrote:

VitaminCee wrote:

QuidEst wrote:

No attack trait.

Did you just say that force open action doesn’t have the attack trait, while linking proof that it actually does have the attack trait? Absolute power move lol.

... I double-checked to make sure I wouldn't look like an idiot if it were right there. But it definitely is right there, so now I look like an idiot.

Hey, we all err from time to time. Gods knows my play group never lets me live something down when I'm wrong though!

I do still think we need something to clarify whether the Ikon can be broken or destroyed though.