Help me build an optimized solo frontliner Fighter for Abomination Vaults


Advice


Hello! This will be my 2nd PF2e character. I've put quite a lot of thought about this, and then I stumbled upon the freshly released Stalwart Defender (not on AoN but you can find it on pathbuilder) and as I was already almost certainly making a dwarf, this was just too neat to pass!

This is for Abomination Vaults, Free Archetype, with a party of : Human Wizard, Fetchling Sniper Gunslinger (who will go either Medic and/or Sniping Duo with me as a spotter, probably both), Kobold Cloistered Cleric of Apsu w/ Fey Sorcerer dedication. As you can tell, I am the only melee/frontline character, so I need to be thicc.

Unfortunately Pathbuilder doesn't let me "share a copy" of the character because I have the paid version with Free Archetype, which is a bit irritating but oh well. Here are pictures of it instead https://i.imgur.com/tRfDIVx.png https://i.imgur.com/L0iVBCN.png
https://i.imgur.com/9cIhtoC.png
In album form: https://imgur.com/a/1FdQvIl

Do note: Reinforced Surcoat + Unburdened Iron for "free" crit resistance. Good possibility of using Shield Augmentations instead of Boss/Spikes.

Album of Stalwart Defender feats since they're not on AoN yet https://imgur.com/a/VVECfxw big "you shall not pass" energy

My main doubts:

#1: Am I spreading myself too thin trying to use double slice with shield boss/spikes, for the damage value and the alternate damage type? If yes, what alternative would you recommend?
- Sudden Charge is very nice, but this is AV, and my speed should be reasonable all things considered since I'm ignoring my armor speed penalty entirely, I'll be at 20 feet, 25 if I get fleet at 3, which seems like the play especially if I'm not taking Sudden Charge.
- Exacting Strike is nice but doesn't really synergize with other feats I'm interested in very well, this is for people using 3 separate actions to attack, and I'll almost always be raising a shield.

- Reactive Shield ruins my reaction action economy, doesn't let me shield block and doesn't work with my 2 stalwart defender feats (which isn't a dealbreaker in itself but makes it much worse).
- Snagging Strike & Combat Grab are great, but I don't want to be doing unarmed stuff. I know it's good, but I'd much rather use a reach weapon, and especially from level 5 making enemies prone with a hammer/flail, or at least do more damage without costing like 3 feats.

- Power attack is nice early on but I'm going to be using a d4 or d6 weapon, and will apparently get magic weapon regularly, so it's not amazing.

#2: With the stats I'm going for, are there better things I could be doing with my skill feats other than all the athletics stuff? There's some other neat ones that have niche uses but...

- Skills aren't finalized and will depend on what the party ends up with, though I'm definitely beelining Athletics, and having trained Acrobatics.

#3: Finalizing weapon choice has been a big thorn, especially because of the level 5 spec "locking" you into one weapon type (making shield boss/spikes worse in passing).

- My current top picks are: (Scorpion) Whip, Asp Coil, Khopesh/Temple Sword

- With a dwarf, I don't really want to consider advanced weapons, at least not before level 6 where I could get the fighter feat for them. Flickmace is obviously still very good, though it's nowhere near as crazy as before, and I also kinda don't want to be "that guy". Chain Swords would have been nice if I went Rogue dedication for the sneak attacks. Falcatas are insane and I'm definitely still thinking about them.

- I've also been considering these in addition to the ones I've already mentioned: Urumi (deadly d10 sweep flail), Light Hammer (for Agile Double Slice), Light Pick/Pick (big damage).

#4: Ranged options?

- Thrown weapons are a given given my stats + AV, Chakri https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=333 seem absolutely excellent and I don't see why I wouldn't be using them.
I can pin 2 on each of my wrists without any requirements as far as I can tell, and they're 40 ft range, 1d6+STR damage with reload 0 in most scenarios, since I'm unlikely to use more than 4 in a fight, and they have Recovery, so I get 4 or 5 hits worth (if I start with one in hand) no matter what.

Any opinions or ideas are welcome, thanks for reading!


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I will tell you how to optimize a fighter. You can do other things if you want, but this is pure optimization.

1. Make whatever race. Max out strength.

2. Make the Maul your main weapon.

3. Focus on the heaviest armor you can get.

4. Take Sudden Charge at level 1.

5. Take Knockdown at level 4.

6. Take Combat Reflexes at level 10.

7. Max your Athletics skill and build it up as often as you can with feats, items, and skill ups.

I like to pick up Champion Archetype at level 2 and Champion's Reaction Paladin at level 6, but not everyone likes being lawful good.

Fighting style is knock stuff down, AoO it as it stands up. Do this over and over and over again.

When you get really bored of this and want to work in other stuff, you can pretty much do what you want after that. Mix in some other stuff just to break up the monotony.

I think I picked up cleric archetype later, then got my casting to level 6 spells for heroism.

Works very effectively. Very simply. It's kind of like the bard that does this one thing so well that you are viewed as extremely awesome, but the playstyle makes you cry tears of boredom after you knock something down and AoO for the hundredth time or more.

Build that optimized core, then play around for fun.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

For an "only melee in the group" type character, I think reach offers enough value for Guisarme to be preferred over Maul. Partly because exerting control over a 5x5 portion of the battlefield is a lot better than the default 3x3 even if a mob can rapidly run you out of reactions, and partly because having someone prone, threatened with an AoO, and one square away from you is often much stronger tactically than having someone prone, threatened with an AoO, and adjacent to you.

Also, grab a Gauntlet as a backup bludgeoning weapon (or if you stick with Maul, grab a Bladed Gauntlet as a backup slashing weapon).


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Deriven's advice is generic, but he hasn't paid that much attention to your specifics.

You are right in that Sudden Charge is of lesser use in a dungeon crawl providing your base move is not terrible. That is you take at least one of Unburdened Iron or Fleet. You can then think aout the other level 1 options.

You are the sole melee combatant so you can't rely on allies for flanking, and likewise you are not really helping anyone else flank. So there is value in grabbing or tripping, not just for obstructing the movement of the enemy as giving you more AoO but also to provide good modifiers for your yourself and your allies. The gunslinger can get some very good criticals regularly if you help but also setting up flat footed.

You are also expected to put yourself in harms way before every other character. So investing in defense can be a useful option.
Using a Shield does work but you probably wont be using to to block with much as you do want your reaction for AoO, until you get Quick Shield Block

Snagging Strike works fine if you go one handed.

The choice is up to you but it will depend on how your GM plays the monsters. If they try to go though you then the Shield is worth it. If they go around you then grappling and tripping is best.

Dervien's way is focusing on offense - which is valid - just don't think it is the only way. A reach weapon would be better for that style if you find the rooms are large.


The problem here is that you're more than just their only frontline. The casters aren't going to be doing much damage and the gunslinger won't have their action economy feat taxes paid until level 4. The good news is that you have a healbot that can remain dedicated to keeping you alive.

The stalwart defender archetype doesn't look too good honestly. Given how you aren't going to be having many friends with you close by, I'd even skip on champion and grab blessed one to rush lay on hands to improve your early survivability and the extra focus point at 4 which will help after the remaster buffs refocus.

For your weapon, again, your team isn't going to be carrying their weight too well early on. D4 isn't going to cut it. Guisarme is probably the best here or maul if you don't care about reach or manual tripping (or transition from one to the other after you select your weapon group at 5). I don't like shields, personally. Too cumbersome on the action economy and I don't think you can afford that. By the time you hit 5, flail/hammer spec is going to be dead, so that's not really a big deal.

Of course, at this point, I've rejected a fair bit about your base character which might be defeating the point of this.


For ranged options a Bola is enough in a dungeon.
I'd be focusing on Con over Dex and not worry about it too much. Carry a backup weapon if you like. The rest of the party can handle most ranged needs.

Liberty's Edge

Remember that Retraining is a thing. So, you could build one way to survive the lower levels and then optimize differently based on your enemies and your party's preferred tactics.


OP wanted a frontline solo fighter. That's what I usually do. If he's solo, probably won't need the champion's reaction. Could probably grab more damage and a caster archetype for shield cantrip.

I've tried other fighters. Not much beats tripping and hitting when they get up. Then have the casters heal you up so you remain standing.

Optimal fighter is fairly simple and straightforward.

The natural crit trips with the maul are great once you get crit spec.

There is no real way to stop things from getting by you other than grappling or tripping. Escaping from a grapple is surprisingly not a move action and doesn't provoke the AoO near as I can tell. Just has the attack trait.

He can try other types of fighters if he just wants to have fun. If he wants an optimal play experience, hard to beat the maul fighter. It does the job so well for knocking things down.

Trip is the god maneuver of PF2. You are either tripping stuff or a suboptimal martial. I didn't make the game, but that's how it is.


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Deriven Firelion wrote:
There is no real way to stop things from getting by you other than grappling or tripping.

How about physically blocking the way?

Much of the AV is 5ft and a few 10ft wide corridors and rooms. Just standing in the way is enough.

Liberty's Edge

Gortle wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:
There is no real way to stop things from getting by you other than grappling or tripping.

How about physically blocking the way?

Much of the AV is 5ft and a few 10ft wide corridors and rooms. Just standing in the way is enough.

Sounds like having an eidolon by your side should be enough to block the way. Summoner dedication ?

Or some way to become Large


Gortle wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:
There is no real way to stop things from getting by you other than grappling or tripping.

How about physically blocking the way?

Much of the AV is 5ft and a few 10ft wide corridors and rooms. Just standing in the way is enough.

There are a few instances where you can pull someone into the corridor and it will mindlessly attack the fighter. Others where the enemy would just wait in the room or ambush you or go through the wall or dimension door to the back of the group. Or hammer with range. Lots of monster variation in AV.

I ran that module with a dual weapon warrior rogue, a dual weapon warrior fighter, a defensive monk, and a primal sorcerer. We did not have trip and still won, but it wasn't optimal.

This guy is asking about building an optimal frontline fighter. Near as I can tell there is one optimal way to build a fighter, then there is building a fighter to have fun in the way that you want. If he wants to do that, then he can do almost anything and it will probably still get the job done. If he wants optimal, I've never seen a fighter better than a maul trip fighter whether it's frontline or anything else. If you can knock something down and provoke AoOs, then you are playing a fighter optimally.

Other things work and can be fun, but it isn't optimal. You want to crush things as a fighter, be a fighter with a trip crit specialization weapon and knockdown then build up AoOs. It's an easy, time-tested formula for an optimal fighter.

Can he get the job done with another type of fighter? Sure. Will it be more fun? Maybe, if that's what he likes.

If this is his first time doing a fighter, I'd suggest the trip maul fighter so he can see the pinnacle of PF2 offensive power. Then he can play around as he wants after that.

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