Undead Dedication practicality

[Conde]

Hello everyone,

I really love the Undead dedications. Ghoul, Zombie and Mummy seem like great fun to play.
One thing tho... When people talk about them, it's often like most of the other stuff... They assume you can just put it in your build and TADA! It's done.

Let's say you DM allow players to take Uncommon or even Rare feats/dedications etc...

You are playing any campaign, module... Anything. And you just gain a level and you are going to take this filthy but really flavorful Ghoul Dedication but... Oh wait. You never have met any Ghoul... And even worst, no Ghoul killed you... Because you are alive. And well.

Can you buy Ghoul Fever? I don't think so. I mean they produce this disease but I don't think you can put it in a potion or anything.
You could consume Ghoul meat, if I remember correctly it is said in the wiki that you can contract Ghoul Fever from doing that... But I don't think there is any rules for that.

So you are probably screwed.

Is this kind of dedication campaign specific and do you have to ask your DM nicely for it to happen?
Or do you have to know there is Ghouls somewhere in your campaign, go where they are, pray to be butchered by them and fail all your saves and die from the disease before they tear you apart?

It reminds me of these very specific Prestige Classes from 3.5, like the Thrall of Juiblex who asked the player who wanted to enter the PrC to "sacrifice an intelligent being." And you had to bring three oozes, slimes or puddings too for the tirual. And the victim of the ritual had to be dissolved in acid.
But actually it could happen... Somehow.

It is the same vibe of unpracticality.

Am I missing somethign here? I am really interested by these dedications but a lot of stuff seem gatekeeped behind lore or very specific stuff happening in some campaign and if you do not play the campaign the stuff you are interested by is in, you are basically out of luck.

[moosher12]

The Uncommon and Rare traits usually mean that attaining the entry is not automatically granted, because the entry is either are A) potentially disruptive to certain campaigns or tables, or B) something that requires enough conditions to be met that you need a GM to work with you on it. It basically is a check to make sure a GM has a moment to allow or deny the entry before it is put to a character sheet. (My players know, for example, that they have to run any Uncommon, rare, or unique entries by me before taking them, but I also give them the comfort that most of the time I'll say yes, unless it looks unreasonable in this instance).

As for becoming a ghoul, I'd probably say your best bet is to tell the GM that you plan to become a ghoul, and they can try to worm a ghoul-related mini encounter for you into the adventure path.

This is the sort of thing that can be easily wedged into downtime. Ghouls are intelligent, and can probably attempt illusory magics or the like to hunt in a settlement whatever settlement you're in (They don't just have to be their default statblock). You could have a brief encounter where a character is ambushed by ghouls, gets bit, defeats them, and succumbs to ghoul fever before the local cleric finds him. This doesn't even need to be a tactical encounter worth XP. It can just be a footnote of a downtime activity, if the GM is willing to make it so.

[breithauptclan]

Yeah. By the rules you can take the archetype dedication as long as you meet the requirements.

From a narrative and plot point of view, you will probably want to work with your GM and the other people at the table for something like an undead archetype in order to work the transformation into the plot in a way that makes sense.

[HammerJack]

If you're already having the "Hey, GM, can I take Ghoul Dedication?" conversation, why would "What if I never meet a ghoul?" not be something you handle together at the same time?

[moosher12]

I should also add. according to the Book of the Dead, page 45, it is possible to start as a ghoul from level 1, and say you were killed by a ghoul before the story started. You'll get the benefits of the dedication right away, by promising you'll dedicate your Level 2 class feat to it (Or 1st Archetype Feat if you are using the Free Archetype system).

If your GM automatically allows Uncommon and Rare entries, this would be the least disruptive approach.

[Conde]

Sorry for the delay everyone.

Thank you so much for your answers.

I do not own the book and I didn't know you could have access to these informations on nethys... But yes, you are right Moosher12, there is rules for taking an undead dedication at level 1... Which is perfect. In a way.
I mean, it might be way easier to justify being killed by a ghoul out of screen than anything else.
Good luck finding a ghoul just before leveling up if you are in a dungeon or something like that.

Once again, that is what I was looking for. So, thank you all.

[The Raven Black]

Being killed by a ghoul to take the dedication sounds just like getting a spellbook and learning to cast spells written there if you take the Wizard MC Dedication. It just happens off screen.

[Claxon]

HammerJack wrote:

If you're already having the "Hey, GM, can I take Ghoul Dedication?" conversation, why would "What if I never meet a ghoul?" not be something you handle together at the same time?

Yeah, if your talking to your GM about taking the dedication in the first place, and they say yes, presumably they are willing to create some circumstance in which it makes sense for your character to fulfill the requirements of becoming that kind of undead.

Generally speaking if I was your GM the answer would be flat out no, but I could be convinced to run a campaign where starting or becoming undead was the point of the campaign which would obviously have a different answer.