TL;DR: Should the description of the Scorpion Whip introducted in AP 151 Extinction Curse - The Show Must Go On have a sentence added to it to make it count as a whip for features such as Favored Weapon? Are there other weapons that should receive a similar treatment?
First off, I know that Favored Weapons aren't massively impactful to the game, even to the few classes that actually care at all about them. Secondly, I realize that the easy answwer to this topic is "Most GMs will probably say yes", but I think this discussion could be interesting anyway.
At no point in any of the rules text for deities or favored weapons is there a line that expliciotly states that the weapon named in a dietie's Devotee Benefits is refering to a single very specific weapon—however, that can be safely assumed since most times that's inherently clear. Cayden Cailean, for example, has the rapier as his Favored Weapon, and there is (AFAIK) only one weapon with "rapier" in it's name; that being the rapier itself, of course.
However, some deities can be a little more vague because there are multiple weapons that share part of their name. Erastil, for example: his Favored Weapon is the longbow, but there are two weapons in the CRB with "longbow" in their name: the longbow itself, and the composite longbow. For another example, let's take Ghlaunder, who's Favored Weapon is the spear—there are a great many weapons with "spear" in their name, the CRB has the spear itself, and the longspear.
Fortuantely, there isn't actually any confusion here. Even though no rules text about Favored Weapons specifically states that a deity's Favored Weapon entry is refering to one very specific weapon, this is made very apparently true when you read the description of the Composite Longbow, the last line of which states:
"Any time an ability is specifically restricted to a longbow, such as Erastil's favored weapon, it also applies to composite longbows unless otherwise stated."
That clears it up. From this we can assume that unless a weapon's description EXPLICITLY states that it counts as another weapon for weapon-restricted abilities, it cannot benefit from those abilities.
The only other weapon in the CRB (and the only other weapon I'm aware of at all) with that clarification is the composite shortbow, the last line of which reads "Any time an ability is specifically restricted to a shortbow, it also applies to composite shortbows unless otherwise stated."
The longspear doesn't have such a clarification, so a longspear will not benefit from any Favored Weapon features if your deity's favored weapon is simply "spear".
Fianlly, we get to the subject of the question: the scorpion whip, the description of which reads:
"A scorpion whip has a series of razor sharp blades set along its tip. Unlike ordinary whips, a scorpion whip doesn't have the nonlethal trait, making it deadly in combat but less effective when the wielder seeks to bring in foes alive."
Traits wise, a scorpion whip is exactly the same as the whip with only the following differences:
1) It has the uncommon trait.
2) It lacks the nonlethal trait.
3) it's bulk is L instead of 1 (even though it is just a whip with blades tacked on—if anything it their bulks should be swapped but that's not what this is about).
4) It's 5 sp instead of 1 sp (not that this is relevant).
Balance wise, I don't believe there's any reason to disallow the scorpion whip from being treated as a whip for weapon-restricted abilities. There are probably other weapons with similar cases across PF2E's many books, and there will probably be mroe cases int he future.
So should the line "Any time an ability is specifically restricted to a <weapon>, it also applies to <different weapon> unless otherwise stated." find its way into new (and errata its way into) more weapon descriptions?
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The Composite Longbow description has your answer:
This projectile weapon is made from horn, wood, and sinew laminated together to increase the power of its pull and the force of its projectile. Like all longbows, its great size also increases the bow’s range and power. You must use two hands to fire it, and it cannot be used while mounted. Any time an ability is specifically restricted to a longbow, such as Erastil’s favored weapon, it also applies to composite longbows unless otherwise stated.
So, the Composite Longbow counts as a Longbow for most every purpose, and specifically lists Deity Favored Weapons as an example. Which means that if the weapon is meant to count as another weapon, it would expressly say so. This sets the precedent of "a weapon doesn't count as something unless it says it does."
This sort of text is lacking from the Scorpion Whip entry, so it doesn't count as a Whip for feats and abilities requiring it.
I personally don't see a balance concern with it working for deity favored weapons, since the only real difference is a rarity tag (which shouldn't exist) and a non-lethal trait missing; it's otherwise the same weapon type, has all the same traits, damage type, dice size, etc., so it's not really gaining or losing anything extremely significant; the weapon having less bulk (which is inconsistent) and costing more (which doesn't make sense since it has equal or less traits) seems more like inconsistent design than it does a serious balance difference. In a home game, I personally don't see an issue in allowing it to work, and this is probably all that a player should concern themselves with. But by RAW, Scorpion Whip is not a Whip, so it doesn't count for abilities and effects expressly requiring the Whip weapon, such as Deity Favored Weapons.
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Which means that if the weapon is meant to count as another weapon, it would expressly say so. This sets the precedent of "a weapon doesn't count as something unless it says it does."
While that is a valid argument for a rules lawyer, it should be used sparingly in a practical game.
Ultimately it is up to the players at the table to decide, with the GM having the final word on it.
Personally I see no good reason that a Scorpion Whip shouldn't be considered a Whip for Favored Weapons.
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As this is the rules discussion subforum, I think RAW is pretty clear:
The composite bows have specific wording that include them for abilities and such that mention long/short bows, unless specifically excluded.
Scorpion Whip does not have any similar wording.
Generally speaking, I think many GMs would allow whip related feats/abilities to apply to Scorpion Whips, but that would be a house rule. (I'd almost certainly allow it personally, 'cause I'm not as much of a hardass about rules as my players like to joke).
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There are in fact even two more rapiers at the Moment
One is also a fun and the other weirdly shaped
RAW it seems pretty clear
But I always hated the RAW favored weapons because of the simple fact that later published and possibly more fitting weapons are never taken into Account
Also there seem to be by Design no advanced favored weapons anymore
I think the concept of favored weapons has to be reworked
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There are in fact even two more rapiers at the Moment
One is also a fun and the other weirdly shapedRAW it seems pretty clear
But I always hated the RAW favored weapons because of the simple fact that later published and possibly more fitting weapons are never taken into Account
Also there seem to be by Design no advanced favored weapons anymore
I think the concept of favored weapons has to be reworked
Later published weapons could have text similar to that of the composite longbow. No problem there.
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Which means that if the weapon is meant to count as another weapon, it would expressly say so. This sets the precedent of "a weapon doesn't count as something unless it says it does."While that is a valid argument for a rules lawyer, it should be used sparingly in a practical game.
Ultimately it is up to the players at the table to decide, with the GM having the final word on it.
Personally I see no good reason that a Scorpion Whip shouldn't be considered a Whip for Favored Weapons.
You might not realize it, but this post sounds extremely condescending and is also somewhat misleading.
The first part is the RAW but is scorned as "rules-lawyering" while the second part is just homebrew but is presented as what should happen "in a practical game".
Later published weapons could have text similar to that of the composite longbow. No problem there.There are in fact even two more rapiers at the Moment
One is also a fun and the other weirdly shapedRAW it seems pretty clear
But I always hated the RAW favored weapons because of the simple fact that later published and possibly more fitting weapons are never taken into Account
Also there seem to be by Design no advanced favored weapons anymore
I think the concept of favored weapons has to be reworked
of course they could but I am not aware of a single instance, at the very least it's rare
You might not realize it, but this post sounds extremely condescending and is also somewhat misleading.
The first part is the RAW but is scorned as "rules-lawyering" while the second part is just homebrew but is presented as what should happen "in a practical game".
No, I wasn't aware of that. My apologies. I am not trying to be condescending.
I'm just trying to say that in general I think we can end up taking the rules to too literal of an extreme.
The general rules mention that a general rule will be overridden by a specific rule. But that doesn't mean that a specific rule will override the general rule in all other instances - which is what this argument of 'the exception proves the rule' is based on. If the general rules are silent on the matter, but there is one item somewhere that mentions allowing something, then that implies that there should have been a general rule preventing it. Which doesn't actually follow logically. If the general rule did exist, it may very well say the same thing as the specific rule and the specific rule is just a reminder of it.
I don't really like that logic of upgrading of a specific rule into a general rule. That isn't the way that game rules should be written or read. But that is what we have to work with when debating rules technicalities on these forums.
As for what should happen in a practical game, I am basically paraphrasing the First Rule and General Rule #1. I still stand by those.
Also there seem to be by Design no advanced favored weapons anymoreThere's always Achaekek and his sawtooth sabers, though that's the exception that prooves the rule. Sawtooth sabers were made to be Achaekek's weapons, and they were meant to be tricky to use without sufficient training, so they sort of had to be advanced, but it also made zero sense for Achaekek's worshipers to not know how to use them.
What's funny is that, while Achaekek Clerics have proficiency in this weapon, Achaekek Champions do not; they merely only get access to it.
It does also mean that an Achaekek Cleric can go into Red Mantis Assassin dedication in spite of other more suitable classes that should be able to.