It's really weird for a monk to have twf. But assuming that they do anyway, then the first set should be right.
Vestigial arms specify that they can't give you any more attacks than you'd have without them.
Ok, I see what you are getting at now. I'm really not sure about that. It certainly doesn't "feel" right, since vestigial arm isn't intended to give an attack advantage like that.
Maybe others will bring some better insights
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well even if it does work, those natural attacks will take an additional -5 without multiattack or -2 with it if you mix in unarmed attacks, on top of the -2 for twf
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full-attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type.
the unarmed strike counts as a weapon attack
also, half str on damage for most of those attacks (idk if the twf and monk unarmed still allow full str on the off hand attack for that)| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Unless I'm mistaken, he's talking about not using any unarmed attack, but using the unarmed attacks as proof that his vestigial arms can make that many attacks. It's very tricksy
It doesn't work because Vestigial Arm checks how many attack you can actually make during the turn you want to attack with it, not in some theoretical Schrödingers Cat situation. In order for the character in question to make more than three attacks, they need to combine making manufactured weapon attacks/unarmed strikes with natural attacks. There is no replacing those with claw attacks, because at that point, you aren't getting the attacks to begin with.
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Thanks, a lot!
It's a bit tricky true.
As a Gm i’m still wondering and i do really appreciate this support.It doesn't work because Vestigial Arm checks how many attack you can actually make during the turn you want to attack with it, not in some theoretical Schrödingers Cat situation. In order for the character in question to make more than three attacks, they need to combine making manufactured weapon attacks/unarmed strikes with natural attacks. There is no replacing those with claw attacks, because at that point, you aren't getting the attacks to begin with.Well the point about this is the order when you apply rules and shenanigans:
-Unarmed strikes it’s not a Natural Attack it can be Punch or Kick.
-Twf grant an extra attack with a Weapon or Unarmed Stike
-Vestigial Arms grant the second attack of Twf so i have that attack available ever
So at this point i have:
Kick/Kick(my own leg are valid) or Punch/Punch(vestigial replace Leg) -2/-2, claw/claw -5/-5Now we go in the grey area coz i drink my Feral Mutagen and it Grant(I really hate this word open up too many conflicts)2 Claws and 1Bite attack
Are my mouth a valid target to be granted Bite?
YesSo we go for(the last one bite): -2/-2,-5/-5,-5
Are my vestigial a valid target to be granted Claws?
Yes
Can i use them to attack without breaking vestigial rules?
YesAt this point i’m allowed to use all of them whenever i want.
and those are all Natural Primary Attacks.
+0/+0, +0/+0, +0Btw
Actually, I’m thinking of considering all of them as a Twf Iteration.
1 Main Hand and 3 Off Hand+Bite
-2/-2/-2/-2,+0Still wondering for help
Change my mind
Thanks
you're working under invalid assumptions, and its not anyones job to change your mind.
people have explained it doesnt work. accept it, or houserule for your own game
if you want all the attacks to work like manufactured weapons, then you do you. look up the multiwepon fighting feat
if you wanna ignore how natural attacks work, then thats up to you
it's the same reason a monk with claws can't use the claw to both unarmed strike and claw.
you check the number of attacks for vestigial before using it. if you decide to use it for unarmed attack that is one thing. if you switch to claw it's another. can't pick both at the same time.
the only reason you get the unarmed AND natural is because you decided to use manufactured weapon to attack. once you do this you are 'locked' into manufactured weapon fight and all other natural weapons in your round are treated as secondary.
unlike normal attacks the vestigial need you to commit which attack it replace. what you are traying to do is commit to an unarmed attack then switch to a claw.
Are my vestigial a valid target to be granted Claws?
Yes
Can i use them to attack without breaking vestigial rules?
Yes
This is where you're wrong. You only have five attacks if you TWF with manufactured weapons/unarmed strikes. If you aren't doing that, you aren't using the rules that grant those attacks.
In a full attack without unarmed strikes, you have 3 attacks. Making more breaks the Vestigial Arm rules. You only get the five original attacks under specific conditions, if you don't fulfill those conditions, the number of attacks you can make drops.