
| QuidEst | 
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. | 
 
	
 
                
                
              
            
            pixierose wrote:I'm a bit confused. You know you don't have to use your deities weapon for champions right? They get martial weapon proficiency. The favored weapon is just a flavorful weapon tied to your deity but you can use any weapon you want. There are no feats needed. Well except for advanced weapons but thats most classes.
No feats are needed.
Copied straight from the 4th edition CRB:
Deific Weapon
You zealously bear your deity’s favored weapon. If it’s uncommon, you gain access to it. If it’s an unarmed attack with a d4 damage die or a simple weapon, increase the damage die by one step (d4 to d6, d6 to d8, d8 to d10, d10 to d12).This does not say "most Champions" or 'some prefer"; it says "you do".
Ah, I see. Well then , I have good news. That's not what that means, and Champions can pick whatever weapon they want. It's just a description for the class feature. If it worked the way you're interpreting it, then the iconic Champion wouldn't be regularly pictured carrying two weapons, nor would it have proficiency in all martial and simple weapons while only being able to use one.
The feature exists solely to make sure that a Champion can use their deity's favored weapon (as long as it's not advanced), and it won't be too terrible of a choice just because a deity happens to favor a simple weapon.

| Pronate11 | 
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. | 
Sir Belmont the Valiant wrote:pixierose wrote:I'm a bit confused. You know you don't have to use your deities weapon for champions right? They get martial weapon proficiency. The favored weapon is just a flavorful weapon tied to your deity but you can use any weapon you want. There are no feats needed. Well except for advanced weapons but thats most classes.
No feats are needed.
Copied straight from the 4th edition CRB:
Deific Weapon
You zealously bear your deity’s favored weapon. If it’s uncommon, you gain access to it. If it’s an unarmed attack with a d4 damage die or a simple weapon, increase the damage die by one step (d4 to d6, d6 to d8, d8 to d10, d10 to d12).This does not say "most Champions" or 'some prefer"; it says "you do".
That's flavor text, yo. I don't think there is anyone else on the planet who looked at that and thought "well, champions NOT wielding their deity's favored weapons is clearly anathema." If you take that sentence literally, what do you think happens when the champion puts down the weapon to eat, bathe, sleep, or wipe their butt?
I guess if we did take it super literally, it says you BEAR the weapon, not wield it. So all it forces you to do is carry the weapon, not actually use it in combat. Still wouldn't make any sense for the outhouse though.
No you see, clearly all champions must turn their weapons into bears. So clearly, champions need a bear animal companion at level 1

| MEATSHED | 
pixierose wrote:I'm a bit confused. You know you don't have to use your deities weapon for champions right? They get martial weapon proficiency. The favored weapon is just a flavorful weapon tied to your deity but you can use any weapon you want. There are no feats needed. Well except for advanced weapons but thats most classes.
No feats are needed.
Copied straight from the 4th edition CRB:
Deific Weapon
You zealously bear your deity’s favored weapon. If it’s uncommon, you gain access to it. If it’s an unarmed attack with a d4 damage die or a simple weapon, increase the damage die by one step (d4 to d6, d6 to d8, d8 to d10, d10 to d12).This does not say "most Champions" or 'some prefer"; it says "you do".
Okay but nothing within its actual rules states you have to use it. Halberds are pretty standard for paladins due to how good reach is for them and halberds are nice for raw damage due to having versatile rather than a maneuver trait. Also you still haven't explained what feat you thought champions needed to use different weapon.

| PlantThings | 
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            I'm pretty high on the Bones Oracle more than most, but I do think it has the worst Mystery Benefit in terms of design and deserves a second look.
It's an on daily prep decision to gain negative healing. It's too situational, both in effect and application, compared to the others it often feels like you have no Mystery Benefit to work with at all most of the time. I wish it was something you can do more on the fly instead. Maybe not exactly combat useable but at least as a 10 minute activity once per day.
The alternate effect, if you have negative healing already, isn't any better. Specifically since its improved recovery check doesn't stack with Toughness unlike Mountain's Stoutness. It's also disappointingly redundant with the major curse.

| Cyder | 
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. | 
 
	
 
                
                
              
            
            Oracle is a mess of good ideas that for me don't quite work. Maybe I am not getting it but the burden of the curse seems to high? I loved oracles in PF1, loved the detriment of 1st level that got benefits to work around/overcome it later. Now the curse/mystery forces a certain kind of playstyle great in theory but unless the optimum moment for your mystery/curse to shine present itself you are playing at a disadvantage for using your classes core mechanic the rest of the time.
Its supposed to be risk/reward but in reality its more like penalty/benefit where the value of the benefit is super situational for many of the mysteries. I say this as someone that loved the PF1 oracle, probably my favourite PF1 class for flavour. The PF2 oracle is not at all fun for me. The flavour of the curse is dictated to the mystery, the mystery often has little synergy with the divine spell list. The mystery benefit is highly situational which means using your core class identity mechanic is often a detrimental choice - no other class has that issue - the psychic is the closest with unleash but even that feels like a much bigger pay off for far less penalty. I really hope they do a good long hard look at what feels good for risk/reward or penalty/benefit. Right now its better to play a sorc and just flavour your curse as an RP mechanic.

| Easl | 
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. | 
Sir Belmont the Valiant wrote:Copied straight from the 4th edition CRB:Deific Weapon
You zealously bear your deity’s favored weapon. If it’s uncommon, you gain access to it. If it’s an unarmed attack with a d4 damage die or a simple weapon, increase the damage die by one step (d4 to d6, d6 to d8, d8 to d10, d10 to d12).This does not say "most Champions" or 'some prefer"; it says "you do".
Ah, I see. Well then , I have good news. That's not what that means, and Champions can pick whatever weapon they want. It's just a description for the class feature...
...The feature exists solely to make sure that a Champion can use their deity's favored weapon (as long as it's not advanced), and it won't be too terrible of a choice just because a deity happens to favor a simple weapon.
When I chargen Champions, I typically load them up with the favored weapon AND another weapon. So he bears the favored and may use it, but also has a "I like to keep this around for close encounters" attitude towards other weapons.
And isn't that how it sorta historically worked in RL? The wakizashi. The kirpan. The officer's sabre (Winston Churchill famously ignored his at the Battle of Omdurman, in favor of a pistol). We have real examples of weapons carried for traditional, cultural, and/or religious reasons, and none of them have ever prevented those folks from adding (or using) additional weapons to/in their arsenal.

|  The Raven Black | 
 
	
 
                
                
              
            
            QuidEst wrote:Sir Belmont the Valiant wrote:Copied straight from the 4th edition CRB:Deific Weapon
You zealously bear your deity’s favored weapon. If it’s uncommon, you gain access to it. If it’s an unarmed attack with a d4 damage die or a simple weapon, increase the damage die by one step (d4 to d6, d6 to d8, d8 to d10, d10 to d12).This does not say "most Champions" or 'some prefer"; it says "you do".
Ah, I see. Well then , I have good news. That's not what that means, and Champions can pick whatever weapon they want. It's just a description for the class feature...
...The feature exists solely to make sure that a Champion can use their deity's favored weapon (as long as it's not advanced), and it won't be too terrible of a choice just because a deity happens to favor a simple weapon.When I chargen Champions, I typically load them up with the favored weapon AND another weapon. So he bears the favored and may use it, but also has a "I like to keep this around for close encounters" attitude towards other weapons.
And isn't that how it sorta historically worked in RL? The wakizashi. The kirpan. The officer's sabre (Winston Churchill famously ignored his at the Battle of Omdurman, in favor of a pistol). We have real examples of weapons carried for traditional, cultural, and/or religious reasons, and none of them have ever prevented those folks from adding (or using) additional weapons to/in their arsenal.
My Champion of Torag carries a silver dagger and a cold iron dagger in his thrower bandolier. During his daily preparations, he chooses the one he thinks will be more useful. And through Torag's blessings, he shifts it into a warhammer.
Blessed be the forge.

| PlantThings | 
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            Oracle is a mess of good ideas that for me don't quite work. Maybe I am not getting it but the burden of the curse seems to high? I loved oracles in PF1, loved the detriment of 1st level that got benefits to work around/overcome it later. Now the curse/mystery forces a certain kind of playstyle great in theory but unless the optimum moment for your mystery/curse to shine present itself you are playing at a disadvantage for using your classes core mechanic the rest of the time.
Imo Cosmos is the only mystery that nets positive on the overall risk/reward. Not so much that the curse bonuses are powerful and morseo that the penalties are easy to mitigate and manage. Its decent focus spells and amazing mystery benefit are what pushes it above the threshold.
Everything else just breaks even or is worse off for playing with their curse. Life has great bonuses offset by very risky penalties. Bones has middling bonuses that almost perfectly cancels its penalties. Flame and Tempest are held back by the divine spell list more than anything. Battle's penalties are more significant than its benefits, while Time is the opposite, with its benefits lacking compared to its penalties. Ancestors is intrinsically rough due to its gimmick, but at least its a gimmick. Lore is too tragic to talk about. I haven't played Ash.

| Dubious Scholar | 
Verzen wrote:Why Kobold ? I would have thought Goblin a better fit.The GM warned you out of one of the deadliest combos in PF2E...
Oracle dedication flame at level 4 gets incendiary aura. Kobold monk with fire attacks and incendiary aura deals a lot of dmg.
Breath weapon at level 1, and succeeding on the save doesn't stop Incendiary Aura from lighting enemies on fire.

| Sanityfaerie | 
 
	
 
                
                
              
            
            The Raven Black wrote:Breath weapon at level 1, and succeeding on the save doesn't stop Incendiary Aura from lighting enemies on fire.Verzen wrote:Why Kobold ? I would have thought Goblin a better fit.The GM warned you out of one of the deadliest combos in PF2E...
Oracle dedication flame at level 4 gets incendiary aura. Kobold monk with fire attacks and incendiary aura deals a lot of dmg.
At that point you might as well go elf for Elemental Wrath (fire).
Works a lot better if you have friends who are also into the fire, though. Spread some of that love around and soon everything is burning.
 
	
 
     
    