As long as it is a psychic spell that you are casting from the staff - and by psychic I of course mean an Occult tradition spell that you are casting by virtue of your Psychic spellcasting class features.
So if you are qualifying to cast a spell from the staff because of some other spellcasting abilities that you have managed to acquire, then you would need to use the normal spellcasting components. But if you are using the staff with your Psychic spellcasting, then it should qualify for the component substitution.
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And does anyone actually track the existence of a material components pouch?
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I'm not so sure about that. Psychics are a bit particular about that. For example, they need an Ancestral Mind feat to cast ancestry spells using psychic spellcasting instead of regular schmuck spellcasting. Their spellcasting class feature describes it as:
You access the vast well of power that resides within your own mind, calling forth psychic magic with nothing but thought and will. You can cast occult spells using the Cast a Spell activity. You alter some of the standard spell components when casting spells you know from your psychic spellcasting. Instead of speaking, you substitute any verbal components with a special mental component determined by your subconscious mind class feature. This represents how you exert your mind toward your intended effect. Any of these components impart the concentrate trait to the spell you're casting. You also substitute any material components with somatic components, though these tend to be simple movements of the hand or head compared to those used by other spellcasters. Your spells still have clear and noticeable visual and auditory manifestations, as normal for a spellcaster.
By unraveling memories and connections passed down from your progenitors and buried within your unconscious mind, you learn to convert your inherent magic into psychic power. You can cast any innate spells you know from an ancestry feat or heritage using your psychic spellcasting components. When you do so, the spell's tradition becomes occult, if it wasn't already, and you can use your psychic spellcasting ability modifier instead of Charisma to determine your spell attack roll and spell DC.
Spells from a staff are closer to being like from your class than innate spells normally are, but are they really spells that you know from psychic spellcasting? What if you cast a spell from a staff that you also happen to have in your repertoire? It's a bit unclear to me.
Also, keep in mind that psychic spellcasting isn't just about different spell components. Unleash Psyche only works with psychic spells, not spells you can cast in other ways.
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I would still go with the idea that if you are using your Psychic Spellcasting class features in order to cast the spell - whether it is from a spell slot or from an item - then it is a psychic spell and can be cast using psychic components.
If you are casting a spell that you are getting from some other spellcasting method, then you would use the regular spellcasting components.
That is the simplest and clearest RAI interpretation that I can come up with.
We can argue over whether that is RAW or not, but I would start with a balance check of determining if restricting a Psychic character from using spellcasting items would be desirable or beneficial to the game as a whole.
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I don't think it's particularly complex to read the class feature strictly;
You alter some of the standard spell components when casting spells you know from your psychic spellcasting.
If you don't know the spell from your psychic spellcasting, then you don't alter the components.
And the fact that there's a feat to make ancestry spells count as psychic spells too, makes it clear the intent really was to limit which spells you could do that with.
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I would still go with the idea that if you are using your Psychic Spellcasting class features in order to cast the spell - whether it is from a spell slot or from an item - then it is a psychic spell and can be cast using psychic components.
If you are casting a spell that you are getting from some other spellcasting method, then you would use the regular spellcasting components.
That is the simplest and clearest RAI interpretation that I can come up with.
We can argue over whether that is RAW or not, but I would start with a balance check of determining if restricting a Psychic character from using spellcasting items would be desirable or beneficial to the game as a whole.
My question would be, how do you track what class made a staff? For instance, if a staff contained all spells on the occult list and a Psychic Spellcasting class created the staff does that make the spells in it Psychic? And if so, how would one know that?
Sounds better to just leave them as blank spells that you cast as your class casts spells instead IMO.
I don't think it's particularly complex to read the class feature strictly;
You alter some of the standard spell components when casting spells you know from your psychic spellcasting.If you don't know the spell from your psychic spellcasting, then you don't alter the components.
And the fact that there's a feat to make ancestry spells count as psychic spells too, makes it clear the intent really was to limit which spells you could do that with.
Which spells do you know from your psychic spellcasting?
Sure you can use the Learn a Spell activity to learn additional spells that you don't have in your Repertoire - but last time I came onto these forums saying that spontaneous casters needed to do that for common spells on their tradition list I got shouted down rather vigorously.
I also think that Ancestral Mind is a red herring. It makes no distinction between traditions other than to say that if the spell is from a different tradition that it becomes an Occult spell as part of the Ancestral Mind process. So this feat is more of a way of making an off-tradition innate spell qualify for the Psychic Spellcasting benefits than it is for being a precedent for casting from an item using Psychic Spellcasting.
If you only have Psychic Spellcasting class features and you cast a spell from an item, what else would you be using other than Psychic Spellcasting?
Ooof, I entirely missed the "you know" part in "You alter some of the standard spell components when casting spells you know from your psychic spellcasting."
Yeah, but the spells that 'you know' is about as well defined as the spells on 'your spell list'.
Which is to say, not defined at all. But referenced in various rules locations.
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When you invest a staff, you are storing some of your own magic power in it, and only you can cast spells from the staff that day. The staff is just a receptacle, it doesn't matter who made it. When you Cast a Spell from the staff, you are making use of your own magic, so you would cast them in the exact same way as you normally would.
For instance, if a staff contained all spells on the occult list and a Psychic Spellcasting class created the staff does that make the spells in it Psychic? And if so, how would one know that?
See if it charges you $9.95/minute to tell you things you want to hear.
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See if it charges you $9.95/minute to tell you things you want to hear.For instance, if a staff contained all spells on the occult list and a Psychic Spellcasting class created the staff does that make the spells in it Psychic? And if so, how would one know that?
LOL only if it connects you to Miss Cleo at the Psychic Readers Network.
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I was already skeptical about psychic spells from staves, but spellhearts seem even further away from it.
Consider:
* The psychic class says "You alter some of the standard spell components when casting spells you know from your psychic spellcasting."
* Spellhearts talk about "When casting a cantrip from a spellheart, you can use your own spell attack roll or spell DC if it’s higher." with emphasis on "from a spellheart"; it's not coming from you, it's coming from the spellheart.
Unlike wands, staves and scrolls, spellhearts don't actually have a clause saying you need to have the spell on your spell list. You need to be a spellcaster because it uses the "cast a spell" activation method, but apart from that, spellhearts are actually really neat because they give out-of-tradition options. A psychic could use a Trinity Geode to cast Scatter Scree. A cleric could get some attack cantrips that don't rely on undead or alignment damage. But the flip side of all that is that you really can't say that these are spells that you know from your psychic spellcasting. You don't need to know these spells at all to cast them.
You need to be a spellcaster because it uses the "cast a spell" activation method
Actually, it doesn’t appear that is the case. All it does say is that you use the spell attack and DC of the spellheart unless yours is higher. As far as ai can tell, anyone can use them. That is reinforced to me based on how they are also compared to talismans in how they attach and operate.
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You need to be a spellcaster because it uses the "cast a spell" activation methodActually, it doesn’t appear that is the case. All it does say is that you use the spell attack and DC of the spellheart unless yours is higher. As far as ai can tell, anyone can use them. That is reinforced to me based on how they are also compared to talismans in how they attach and operate.
Let's use the Grim Sandglass for example:
One bulb of this tiny hourglass contains black sand, the other white. After even a few grains pass from one side to the other, it reverses its flow to keep the two sides in equilibrium. The spell DC of any spell cast by Activating this item is 17.
Armor You gain resistance 2 to negative.
Weapon After you cast a necromancy spell by Activating the sandglass, your Strikes with the weapon deal an additional 1d4 negative damage until the end of your next turn.Activate Cast a Spell; Effect You cast chill touch.
Now let's look at what "Activate Cast a Spell" means:
Cast a Spell
If an item lists “Cast a Spell” after “Activate,” the activation requires you to use the Cast a Spell activity to Activate the Item. This happens when the item replicates a spell. You must have a spellcasting class feature to Activate an Item with this activation component. If the item can be used for a specific spell, the action icon for that spell is provided. If it's an item like a staff, which can be used for many spells, the icon is omitted, and you must refer to each spell to determine which actions you must spend to Activate the Item to cast it.In this case, Activate an Item gains all the traits from the relevant components of the Cast a Spell activity.
EDIT: you do really have to know to look for it to notice it. The writer of the spellhearts in Treasure Vault even put in a sidebar with some dragon chatter that wrongly says the opposite. But when you look up the rule, it's clear.
You need to be a spellcaster because it uses the "cast a spell" activation methodActually, it doesn’t appear that is the case. All it does say is that you use the spell attack and DC of the spellheart unless yours is higher. As far as ai can tell, anyone can use them. That is reinforced to me based on how they are also compared to talismans in how they attach and operate.Let's use the Grim Sandglass for example:
One bulb of this tiny hourglass contains black sand, the other white. After even a few grains pass from one side to the other, it reverses its flow to keep the two sides in equilibrium. The spell DC of any spell cast by Activating this item is 17.
Armor You gain resistance 2 to negative.
Weapon After you cast a necromancy spell by Activating the sandglass, your Strikes with the weapon deal an additional 1d4 negative damage until the end of your next turn.Activate Cast a Spell; Effect You cast chill touch.
Now let's look at what "Activate Cast a Spell" means:
EDIT: you do really have to know to look for it to notice it. The writer of...Cast a Spell
If an item lists “Cast a Spell” after “Activate,” the activation requires you to use the Cast a Spell activity to Activate the Item. This happens when the item replicates a spell. You must have a spellcasting class feature to Activate an Item with this activation component. If the item can be used for a specific spell, the action icon for that spell is provided. If it's an item like a staff, which can be used for many spells, the icon is omitted, and you must refer to each spell to determine which actions you must spend to Activate the Item to cast it.In this case, Activate an Item gains all the traits from the relevant components of the Cast a Spell activity.
That would make Flametongue rather useless then. I’m pretty sure this is a case of specific over general. Otherwise spellhearts are only good for a Magus (due to attack proficiency and having spell casting).
I guess rereading all other items, you seem to be correct. Now I think spellhearts are garbage and won’t bother with them in any game I play or run. :(
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That would make Flametongue rather useless then. I’m pretty sure this is a case of specific over general. Otherwise spellhearts are only good for a Magus (due to attack proficiency and having spell casting).
Flame Tongue isn't a spellheart and it doesn't have 'Cast a Spell' activation.
It has
Activate ◆◆ command, Interact
So you do not need to be a spellcaster or have a spellcasting class feature in order to use the activated abilities of the item.
That would make Flametongue rather useless then. I’m pretty sure this is a case of specific over general. Otherwise spellhearts are only good for a Magus (due to attack proficiency and having spell casting).Flame Tongue isn't a spellheart and it doesn't have 'Cast a Spell' activation.
It has
Activate ◆◆ command, InteractSo you do not need to be a spellcaster or have a spellcasting class feature in order to use the activated abilities of the item.
Look at the comment I made right after the above quoted. I realized that after rereading the items.
That's fine.
But there are other people reading these threads even if they don't post. I'm just making sure that people in general don't think that the criticisms against Spellhearts would apply to all items that cast spells. Other spellcasting items cast spells differently. Each type has their own benefits and drawbacks.
Flame Tongue for example always casts the 7th level version of the spell. It doesn't heighten with the caster's character level like cantrips often do. Spellhearts do heighten their caster level of the cantrips that they have.
That's fine.
But there are other people reading these threads even if they don't post. I'm just making sure that people in general don't think that the criticisms against Spellhearts would apply to all items that cast spells. Other spellcasting items cast spells differently. Each type has their own benefits and drawbacks.
Flame Tongue for example always casts the 7th level version of the spell. It doesn't heighten with the caster's character level like cantrips often do. Spellhearts do heighten their caster level of the cantrips that they have.
I don’t mean to be snappy. I just didn’t want to be corrected twice. :)
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Because they don't say that they don't - they don't specify a particular level of spell that it casts the cantrip at like Flame Tongue does.
And the general rules for Cantrips are that they do heighten.