An Evil outsider takes a class level in Vigilante...

[Liliyashanina]

Hi,

what happens if an evil outsider takes a class level in vigilante?

--Is his vigilante form, assuming he takes one that is not evil, actually immune to detect evil and smite evil?

--Does not being evil mess with the outsiders abilities?

--Did Nocticula secretly achieve redemption by having 20 levels in vigilante and running the redeemer queen as her alter ego?

[AwesomenessDog]

Very few outsider abilities are actually tied to their alignment, and outsiders are already able to "break the mold" of their base monster alignment listed in a bestiary entry. If an ability mattered, it would say so, but also some abilities to use them would be of course an alignment-based action (especially spell-likes with alignment descriptors like Holy Smite).

Vigilante identities have functionally real alignments which means that detect spells would work or fail according to the vigilante alignment when you are in vigilante form. Personally, I think all of the many alignment changing, hiding, and effect avoiding forms and abilities that have cropped up heavily mess with the lore of the game are both massively too prevalent and most of them are too powerful as written. E.g. The Nondetection spell requires a caster level check to pierce it, but it actually allows it to be pierced, where as the vigilante ability doesn't even have a check, so as long as you die in social form, your Batman ripoff gets sent to Pharasma and even she can't figure out that you aren't really deserving of Heaven.

[VoodistMonk]

I was actually just pondering if such an Outsider could avoid being called/summomed if they took Nameless One to "eschew all of your former identities, going as far as to render your former name completely inaccessible to discover by mortal means."

Or, yeah, Vigilante levels! Thank you for this thread... it's like you read me mind.

[willuwontu]

Liliyashanina wrote:

Is his vigilante form, assuming he takes one that is not evil, actually immune to detect evil and smite evil?

If by evil outsider, you mean an outsider with only an evil alignment, then yes.

If you mean an outsider with the evil subtype, then no. Vigilante's Dual Identity doesn't affect your creature type or subtype, and the evil subtype makes you suffer as if you were evil for effects depending on alignment.

Evil Subtype wrote:

Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature had an evil alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is.

So despite the fact that 'Succy the Succubus' is running around as "Red Moon, Defender of the Good and Pure' at night with a LG alignment, if a paladin smites her, they still get that lovely x2 damage on the first hit, and the normal smite boosts after.

[VoodistMonk]

willuwontu, that is a good observation.

[Derklord]

willuwontu wrote:

'Succy the Succubus'

You really succ at making up names!

[AwesomenessDog]

An additional comment, Succy the Succubus couldn't be LG, as you can only be a single alignment step from your actual alignment. So unless Succy had already made the lifechanging developments to LN or NG, the vigilante identity can't be LG.