Here is the situation:
Two flying combatants are having an aerial duel. Creature A has the improved grab ability, and successfully hits Creature B, initiating a grab.
On Creature B's turn, they are immobilized, and cannot take move actions:
You're held in place by another creature, giving you the flat-footed and immobilized conditions. If you attempt a manipulate action while grabbed, you must succeed at a DC 5 flat check or it is lost; roll the check after spending the action, but before any effects are applied.
You can't use any action with the move trait. If you're immobilized by something holding you in place and an external force would move you out of your space, the force must succeed at a check against either the DC of the effect holding you in place or the relevant defense (usually Fortitude DC) of the monster holding you in place.
Assuming creature B cannot Escape from the grab on their turn, they would fall, since they didn't use an action to Fly. However under the Immobilized condition, forced movement requires a check against the DC of the Effect/Creature holding the target in place.
What modifier would forced movement due to Falling use for this check? Unarmed attack mod of the target? Or something else that I am missing?
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Creature B doesn't necessarily fall they aren't flying if they are being held in a grab.
If in the GMs opinion Creature A isn't strong enough to carry the weight of creature B (check encumbrance) or otherwise the grab ends. Then B starts falling and you need to look at the Arrest a Fall reaction.
Creature B doesn't necessarily fall they aren't flying if they are being held in a grab.
If in the GMs opinion Creature A isn't strong enough to carry the weight of creature B (check encumbrance) or otherwise the grab ends. Then B starts falling and you need to look at the Arrest a Fall reaction.
I am open to this interpretation, but I would like to know what rule you are using here. Because the Fly action states:
You move through the air up to your fly Speed. Moving upward (straight up or diagonally) uses the rules for moving through difficult terrain. You can move straight down 10 feet for every 5 feet of movement you spend. If you Fly to the ground, you don’t take falling damage. You can use an action to Fly 0 feet to hover in place. If you’re airborne at the end of your turn and didn’t use a Fly action this round, you fall.
If the target is in the air, its hard for me to say the target is not 'airborne' whether they are grabbed or not.
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Yes, Creature B does not fall if being held in place by Creature A - as long as Creature A can carry the load while flying.
If Creature A can't carry that much, then grapple effectively becomes like a trip action - causing Creature B to fall. The difference being that it does so during Creature B's turn if they can't escape and begin flying again.
But that is assuming that Creature A is willing to release Creature B when they start falling. If instead they refuse and keep the grapple, but can't carry the weight of Creature B, then I would probably rule that both will start falling.
Also, if I was playing Creature B, I might try a grapple of my own against Creature A. If I fall, you're going down with me.
I am open to this interpretation, but I would like to know what rule you are using here.Creature B doesn't necessarily fall they aren't flying if they are being held in a grab.
If in the GMs opinion Creature A isn't strong enough to carry the weight of creature B (check encumbrance) or otherwise the grab ends. Then B starts falling and you need to look at the Arrest a Fall reaction.
The same rule that lets flying creatures (like Strix or Sprite PCs) carry backpacks full of items and carry swords or bows to attack with.
I'm not sure that carrying another creature while flying is an explicitly stated rule, but there are rules for Bulk, and Bulk of Creatures.
I am open to this interpretation, but I would like to know what rule you are using here.Creature B doesn't necessarily fall they aren't flying if they are being held in a grab.
If in the GMs opinion Creature A isn't strong enough to carry the weight of creature B (check encumbrance) or otherwise the grab ends. Then B starts falling and you need to look at the Arrest a Fall reaction.
The same rule that lets flying creatures (like Strix or Sprite PCs) carry backpacks full of items and carry swords or bows to attack with.
I'm not sure that carrying another creature while flying is an explicitly stated rule, but there are rules for Bulk, and Bulk of Creatures.
I am simply not seeing the connection between flying creatures with gear and a grabbed opponent.
The closest I can find for an actual rule is under the Immobilized condition and requiring a check to overcome the Fort DC of the grabbing creature, yet there isn't anything stated on what the modifier would be for a situation like forced movement due to a fall.
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I am simply not seeing the connection between flying creatures with gear and a grabbed opponent.
So what, exactly, do you expect to happen?
Gravity doesn't make an opposed check. If it did the DC would be the Athletics DC of Creature A applying the Grabbed condition on creature B that gravity is trying to move. But, again, gravity doesn't make an opposed check.
Either the Creature B falls because Creature A released it or Creature B is too heavy for Creature A to carry, or Creature A doesn't fall because Creature A is carrying it.
If you have another alternative, go ahead and suggest it.
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If the target is in the air, its hard for me to say the target is not 'airborne' whether they are grabbed or not.
Well there are two possible states. Creature B is flying under their power, or they are being held by Creature A and isn't flying.
Yes in English some would consider Creature B are still airborne, but really it is attached to Creature A and the language used here is not precise enough here to make the difference. The situation would be exactly the same if Creature A was standing at the edge of a chasm with Creature B being held over it.
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Agreed with basically everyone else here their are a limited number of options:
1) Character A grapples character B, causing the grabbed condition. B is held by A and doesn't move.
2) Like option 1, but A isn't strong enough to hold B's weight and let's go. B will start to fall, but likely can take the "arrest a fall reaction".
3) Similar to option 2, except A doesn't let go despite being not strong enough to keep both A and B in the air, and so they begin to fall together. A might be able to arrest a fall, but I would add a penalty probably for having grabbed B and B wouldn't be able to attempt to arrest.
Think of it this way, in order for B to fall A needs to let go of them.
It might be reasonable to add a bonus to B's check to escape the grab on their turn, due to the force of gravity, but they're not going to start falling unless they escape or A let's go.
If A let's go, they're no longer grabbed and could either arrest their fall or possibly start flying again.