|
It states Quote "As a standard action, the alchemist can infuse a single arrow, crossbow bolt, or one-handed firearm bullet with the power of his bomb, load the ammunition, and shoot the ranged weapon. He must be proficient with the weapon in order to accomplish this. When the infused ammunition hits its target, it deals damage normally and detonates as if the alchemist had thrown the bomb at the target. If the explosive missile misses, it does not detonate. An alchemist must be at least 4th level before selecting this discovery."
Someone came up with this idea on a guide that was recently made on zenith, it sounds a wee bit too good to be true, but i wanted to double check if this works.
|
What the “yes” crowd is pointing at is
Alchemical ordnance is treated like an alchemist’s bomb for the purpose of discoveries, though such discoveries ignore any effects associated with a bomb’s splash damage or radius unless the gun chemist also applies the exploding bullet discovery.
But
This replaces bombs.
Force bombs clearly works with alchemical ordinance. The question is whether it works for discoveries that require you to “expend a daily use of your bombs.” In a home game I’d say “no, alchemical ordinance only works with discoveries that modify bombs, not use bombs to do something else” but in a shared campaign like PFS I can’t see enough to disallow it.
|
|
What the “yes” crowd is pointing at is
Alchemical ordnance is treated like an alchemist’s bomb for the purpose of discoveries, though such discoveries ignore any effects associated with a bomb’s splash damage or radius unless the gun chemist also applies the exploding bullet discovery.But
This replaces bombs.Force bombs clearly works with alchemical ordinance. The question is whether it works for discoveries that require you to “expend a daily use of your bombs.” In a home game I’d say “no, alchemical ordinance only works with discoveries that modify bombs, not use bombs to do something else” but in a shared campaign like PFS I can’t see enough to disallow it.
So this would fall under the "Run by your DM" catagory.
|
|
if so, the conductive weapon ability would let you triple down
OH JESUS CHRIST! i didnt even think about that. 4 Bombs for a Long ranged Nuke. SHEEESH
i'd say it doesn't stack, even by raw. follow me slowly on this one.
1: the "Alchemical Ordnance" is the so called bombs of the GUN chemist for any discoveries etc.
2: the ability above state that using it is infusing the X (= bomb) into the ammo before shooting and it stay infused for Y rounds. if anyone asked if you can pull the infused ammo out and then reload it and infuse it again with the same ability. the answer of course would be that it wouldn't stack even if he can infuse it again.
3: the "Explosive Missile" infuse used here is infusing the bullet with the power of his bomb aka the power of alchemical ordnance and as such the ammo is infused with the same ability that is in #1 and as per #2 should not stack.
you basically get another way to infuse the bullet (and into other weapons then a gun's ammo) not get to double infuse the same ability into the same ammo round.
for the same reason you shouldn't be able to stack a bomb with conductive.
note, it helps if you link all the items you ask about so for reference:
It's not an iron-clad argument, but:
The sentence in quesiton is "Alchemical ordnance is treated like an alchemist’s bomb for the purpose of discoveries". Since it say "a bomb", refering to an object, this sentence must refer to the object alchemical ordnance (i.e. a bullet infused with the class feature), not the ability itself. In contrast, "the alchemist can infuse a single arrow, crossbow bolt, or one-handed firearm bullet with the power of his bomb" refers to the class feature, because "the power of his bomb" is singular, and thus must refer to a singular, too, which can only be the class feature "bomb". The Gun Chemist has lost that class feature, and per the above, the sentence in alchemical ordnance only makes the produced item and not the alchemical ordnance class feature itself count as a bomb, a Gun Chemist can't use Explosive Missile.
if so, the conductive weapon ability would let you triple down
Nope, neither Alchemical Ordnance nor Explosive Missile mention touch attacks, and thus can't qualify for Comductive.
my point was that even if the explosive missile could be used with the bomb's subsite of a gun chemist, that substitute is the infused bullet 'Alchemical Ordnance' ability.
so it can't stack with itself.
(but he could, for example, infuse an arrow to act like his 'Alchemical Ordnance').
you have a normal alchemist bomb, let's call it 'explosive formula A'
then you got 'explosive missile' discovery which let a normal alchemist use formula A on ammunition. bullets included.
you now have a gun chemist who learn 'Alchemical Ordnance' aka 'formula B' which let him use something that is considered formula A for discoveries and it infuse something very similar to formula A into bullets.
when said gun chemist uses 'explosive missile' he uses formula B for it -as he never had formula A. that still won't let him use 2x formula B on the same bullet.
not anymore then he can use formula B on a bullet when loading it (with the normal use of 'Alchemical Ordnance'), remove said bullet and put it back in while infusing it again with formula B (again using 'Alchemical Ordnance'). it won't stack.
and if it would, then he has no real need to spend a discovery in the 1st place, does he?
since the bullet remain infused for several rounds at higher levels he can infuse >remove >infuse and at the end shoot a big (level-1)x(bomb) bullet even without the discovery.
same goes for conductive ability. if it works, it would try to add formula B to a bullet which is already infused with formula B. it's like trying to add a smite evil on an enemy already under your smite evil ability.