Hi everyone.
In my last game two situations came up, and I would like to get some imput from fellow DMs out there about how you would resolve them.
- A character observed by some enemies turned invisible and then used Sneak to move to another position secret Sneak check went well and he became undetected to enemies. Then he took a potion and drank it. Is grabbing/drinking a potion while undetected considered an unobtrusive action? Rules talk about allowing this type of actions with a new Stealth roll to try not to give away your position. I ruled it was unobtrusive so a new Stealth could be rolled. What do you think?
- In the same combat, the same character used a Summon Dragon spell (9th) to conjure a lvl 13 Adult Blue Dragon. This creature has the Frightful Presence monster ability:
Frightful Presence (aura, emotion, fear, mental) 90 feet, DC 32
This ability doesn't seem to differentiate between allies and enemies, so it should affect everyone inside the aura, but that kinda defeats the purpose of using a summoned dragon... I ruled that the dragon could appear without the aura active to not mess with the PCs, but I have found nothing in the rules to support this. How would you run this?
Many thanks.
For me, whether or not grabbing and drinking the potion is an unobtrusive action would depend on where the potion was stored. If they had to open a container to get, I would say it's obtrusive. If it was in a bandolier I would say no, not obtrusive.
However, even if it's not an obtrusive action there's a chance they still need another Hide check to remain hidden. It's unclear to me if the hide check requires spending an action (I think it does) or if you just need to check to see "how loud you were". If another action is required, your player might not have enough actions (in one turn) to cast, Hide/Sneak, grab potion and drink, and make an extra hide check. In fact I'm certain they can't do all of that in one turn.
As far as the dragon thing...I suppose I would allow them to summon the dragon without frightful presence active as well because it would be a bummer to summon it and be harmed by your own summon, but nothing in the rules seems to prevent the PCs from being subject to the aura. So I would allow it to not be active, but if the dragon activated it the PCs would also be subject to it. This isn't within the rules, but like I said it sure would be disappointing to summon a dragon that inadvertently harmed you.
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Just drink the potion then Sneak, problem solved.
I do hate that they made it so restrictive on which actions explicitly don't reveal you. As the GM it's up to you if you think pulling a 1oz vial of liquid and chugging it is too obtrusive or not.
Frightful Presence can not be turned on or off, it's always on. It's totally reasonable that the party would be affected if they haven't summoned a dragon before. If they've used it a lot by now, you can say they are unaffected, as per the Aura rules.
The caster probably wanted to avoid potential AoO from retrieving and drinking the potion. Of course, if none of the enemies have an AoO like ability then this is a great suggestion, except that it can't be done in a single turn. Casting invisibility is 2 actions, sneaking is an action, and retrieving and drinking is at least one, possibly 2 actions, depending on how the potion is stored.
OMG, I hadn't noticed the change to Frightful Presence which used to require an offensive action, so presumably left allies okay.
PF2's simply blankets the area willy-nilly, and I have to wonder if adventure designers have factored that in for minions joining a boss battle (as opposed to those hanging out long enough to roll a nat 20).
Heck, imagine frightening a summoned creature. Doh.
Oh, just noticed Aura says this:
"The GM might determine that a monster’s aura doesn’t affect its own allies. For example, a creature might be immune to a monster’s frightful presence if they have been around each other for a long time."
And lacks the old language of turning auras off and on...so can they?
Dragon coming in with aura off might not be an option if dragons can never turn off their auras. Hmm. Awkward.
Note that Medusa had to include language so they specifically can do so, and it takes an action w/ Concentrate. Without that language, I don't think an aura can be deactivated.
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I'd rule allies would be fine if they know it's better than an ally; it's a soulless manifestation under the direct control another ally (and likely a long-term one if members of a party). Superstitious temporary allies might be subject to the aura though, unless coached beforehand or something.
I would definitely have team members unaffected by the dragon's frightful presence if they see the dragon being summoned by their ally. If they round the corner and see an unfamiliar dragon of unknown origin standing there, however...
I think the intent is very much a "GM decides what makes sense". The bestiary example of allies being around each other long enough to immunize against frightful presence is just one possible interpretation, and leaves room for a GM to decide a particularly cruel dragon's frightful presence is still effective against its minions if that's the kind of encounter the GM wants.
Thanks a lot for the answers! they are really helpful.
For the drink a potion/Stealth situation, I'll allow the player to make a Stealth check as a separate action to remain undetected if the potion was on the PC's body outside of a container (such as the bandolier Claxon mentioned).
For the dragon I'll go with the "it's a summoned ally so you shouldn't be afraid of it" ruling.
Keep in mind that the more checks you require from someone, the more likely they are to roll a failure. Not every action necessarily needs its own check if they are all within the same activity. One thing that really annoyed a table with a group I used to play was the GM always demanding a new stealth check every time the player moved a few feet or did anything in the process. Eventually, everyone got sick of it and just lied because he was clearly trying to set-up a failure.
One thing that really annoyed a table with a group I used to play was the GM always demanding a new stealth check every time the player moved a few feet or did anything in the process. Eventually, everyone got sick of it and just lied because he was clearly trying to set-up a failure.
By the rules of PF2, in combat at least, he would be correct. Every move action (technically sneak action) requires a stealth check. And taking actions that aren't approved in the sneak action either break stealth or can require an additional check.
Outside of initiative tracked time (technically doesn't have to be combat) you should be using the exploration sneak activity.