So let's say the consumable item in question costs 10gp.
To make four in a complete batch, you would need half of 40gp, or 20gp with which to start.
A successful check after four days gets you the first half. Every day after that begins reducing the second half by an amount determined by the item level and your check result.
Except that since you're batch crafting the amount is now 5x4=20gp, not simply 5gp.
Because there is more resource costs, the whole four-piece batch takes longer to craft than a single item does.
So, aside from the initial four days, are you really saving time by crafting in batches? If so, what exactly is the point of batch crafting? You're not saving much of anything.
Or should we treat it like a single item, trying to earn up to 5gp (at which point all four items will be completed at half cost)?
It specifically states that at the start It makes no mention of having to pay for the second half for all four items, just at the start. Should we take that mean we're crafting towards 5gp rather than 20gp in the above example? If so, that makes crafting a little bit better, at least regarding consumables.
In short, are the four items really being crafted simultaneously, or are they actually crafted sequentially?
Just trying to wrap my head around it.
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If you are crafting four items as a batch, the only time saved is the initial four days on three of the items. That saves 12 days, three times the initial four days.
For other opinions, I had another thread about this in February 2020, Batch Crafting, fast or slow? People interpret the batch rules differently.
12 days feels like quite a bit of downtime to save. Especially if you aren't taking the extra days to reduce the price.
A successful check after four days gets you the first half. Every day after that begins reducing the second half by an amount determined by the item level and your check result
It is your level, not the items level.
As for crafting a batch, I was going to disagree initially... but on reading it again it literally says you make up to four items in parallel with one check.
So yeah you should get the discount x4. Very very cool find.
Every day after that begins reducing the second half by an amount determined by the item level and your check resultIt is your level, not the items level.
Ah yes, quite right. I'm still not quite used to using one column for no less than two very different things, for which it is not even labeled for.
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A successful check after four days gets you the first half. Every day after that begins reducing the second half by an amount determined by the item level and your check result.
Determined by YOUR level.
You use the Earn Income result based on your level with the DC based on the item's level. This makes it very easy to mass produce low level consumables as you can easily crit and save a bunch of money on them.
So, if you're a level 11 Master, and you want to make 4 Lesser Elixirs of Life. You spend 60g up front, and DC20 Crafting Check. You have +24 Crafting, so a 75% chance to crit. Now, assuming you crit, when you spend additional days crafting you are reducing the remaining amount by 10g per day. This means in 6 days, you will be done with crafting the elixirs, for a total of 10 days.
Compare this to an Earn Income of your level. The DC is 28. Your chance to crit has dropped to 40%. Technically you are still making more money just using Earn Income over crafting, but we haven't even got to the Crafter's Ace in the Hole: Impeccable Crafting.
With this feat, succeeding on a Craft check with your specialty means you Critically succeed. This means you now have a 95% chance to crit on those Elixirs mentioned above. Even if you were crafting something at you level, lets say a Greater Drakeheart Mutagen, you would have a 85% chance to crit on it, meaning you can spend a solid 60 days Crafting, saving 10gp per day, with only a single check. And if you leveled up during that time, you would start saving based on your new level, which would be 15gp per day.
That is the power of crafting. You get steep discounts on items you want, meaning your net worth can skyrocket above that of the rest of your party.
A successful check after four days gets you the first half. Every day after that begins reducing the second half by an amount determined by the item level and your check result.Determined by YOUR level.
Yes, we covered that already.
That is the power of crafting. You get steep discounts on items you want, meaning your net worth can skyrocket above that of the rest of your party.
I'm a bit skeptical of that claim. I've seen loads of math experts* analyzing Craft over the years and it was often found that Craft usually ties up with Earn Income except for very specific situations.
Now, if you can fast craft, as those in Mathmuse's linked thread are want to call it, then you for sure can get ahead a little bit.
* A club in which I am not included as I'm quite terrible at math. #fulldisclosure
You are trying to make an obvious exploit of it. Yes, the designers haven't mentioned that the overall cost is still (cost of one * 4). They probably believed this is obvious. But knowing a little bit how they think and make this game it's impossible they would allow such 'discount' and won't say it explicitly.
It isn't a discount, it is a matter of time the total cost and maximum discount stay the same. But RAW he is right, it is one check and four items being crafted simultaneously, meaning as written atm you gain the benefit of four lots of discounts now don't get me wrong, I am dubious about whether this is an intended interaction or not... but I am not confident that it isn't either given the language used and the fact they are consumables (which limit how much you can "save"/ get ahead of the power curve even with a speed to discount increase like this)
I'm a bit skeptical of that claim. I've seen loads of math experts* analyzing Craft over the years and it was often found that Craft usually ties up with Earn Income except for very specific situations.
Now, if you can fast craft, as those in Mathmuse's linked thread are want to call it, then you for sure can get ahead a little bit.
* A club in which I am not included as I'm quite terrible at math. #fulldisclosure
I dunno about that, earn an income is worth while as long as you can get high level jobs and your time to find the job / duration of the job is short and flexible.
I am speaking from experience, the alchemist in my age of ashes game was almost never better off earning an income partially because of location, partially because of the time sink of working high level jobs.
Now in a game where you always have access to a high level metropolis or you stop in or before mid level play... maybe.
It is the issue with whiteroom comparisons when things involve roleplaying and not pure mechanics.
This all said, I don't think crafting's value is getting ahead gold wise. (Although people do need to remember that you don't have to craft items in one go it is fine dropping a day on it here and there until you have your full discount)
The true value of crafting is duplicating magical items imo. Especially for uncommon or rare items, dragonscale amulet for instance, a player who goes out of their way to craft an extra of those in an AoA campaign has given the party a huge advantage in some encounters (although I would enforce getting the scales of 5 ancient dragons, but that is within possibility at the level you can attempt a DC44 crafting check)
I'm a bit skeptical of that claim.
Did you skip the middle of the post? Cordell's talking about a specific feat that makes crafting more efficient that doesn't have an analog for Earn Income.
Did you skip the middle of the post? Cordell's talking about a specific feat that makes crafting more efficient that doesn't have an analog for Earn Income.
I'm a bit skeptical of that claim.
Depends. Was there math in the middle? My eyes gloss over and brain locks up if there is enough of it.
Overall cost doesn't change in any case when you craft in batches.
No, I don't think that it does either. I've seen it argued before, but personally, I'm thinking at best you save time and time alone.
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Here's something without math then.
Specialty Crafting gives you a permanent +1 on your specialty, for which Alchemy is an option.
Impeccable crafting makes it so if you Succeed at crafting something that is in your specialty, you critically succeed instead.
This is what makes Crafting worth it. You either Crit Fail, Fail, or Crit Succeed.
A successful check after four days gets you the first half. Every day after that begins reducing the second half by an amount determined by the item level and your check result.Determined by YOUR level.Yes, we covered that already.
That is the power of crafting. You get steep discounts on items you want, meaning your net worth can skyrocket above that of the rest of your party.I'm a bit skeptical of that claim. I've seen loads of math experts* analyzing Craft over the years and it was often found that Craft usually ties up with Earn Income except for very specific situations.
Using your own level as the task level for Earn Income is substantially better in cases where you can't reliably find tasks of that level.
Depending on GM/campaign, that could be entirely pointless if such tasks are available everywhere or very strong if you're in some area where only lower-level tasks are available.
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That is the power of crafting. You get steep discounts on items you want, meaning your net worth can skyrocket above that of the rest of your party.I'm a bit skeptical of that claim. I've seen loads of math experts* analyzing Craft over the years and it was often found that Craft usually ties up with Earn Income except for very specific situations.
Using your own level as the task level for Earn Income is substantially better in cases where you can't reliably find tasks of that level.
Depending on GM/campaign, that could be entirely pointless if such tasks are available everywhere or very strong if you're in some area where only lower-level tasks are available.
Another benefit of Crafting is that it's a single check for however long you want. With a month of downtime, you make the single crafting check and get 26 days of crafting after, while with Earn Income you would have to make multiple checks, usually once per week. Job level is also an issue. With your own workshop you can craft items up to your level, even in a small town. Meanwhile the townsfolk can't really pull out the money to give you a level 10 task when the town is only level 5.