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So my group is going to be playing in our homebrew campaign world after we finish Strength of Thousands. Our GM who normally places a character for a group of 4 has decided to not make a character and has opened up dual class & free archetype (guess he wants us felling like demi gods or something). He hasn't really given us any restrictions on what we can make and I've come up with quite a few possible build combo's 2 of which were because my brother was rewatching the marvel movies so I made a Hulk (Giant instinct Barbarian/Fighter w/ the Weapon Improviser Archetype. and a Cap America, (Paladin or maybe Redeemer champion/ Fighter no cluse for an Archetype)
those were just fun thoughts, I came to realize that I haven't put together any Dual Wielding build. Probably the Dual-Weapon Warrior Archetype with what ever class combos It's late were Im at(almost 5am) and wanted to get this thought out there and ask what fun builds others have thought up. Please if you don't mind post your ideas or thoughts.
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You might want to narrow it down in order to attract advisors.
First and foremost is what do you consider fun?
It sounds like you want to fill a frontline role, right? And prefer offense over defense?
You're getting Dual-class AND Free Archetype? If both, I'd avoid tripling up on two martial classes and a martial archetype. Two would give plenty of attack routines.
(BTW, if it's homebrew, I have no idea why he'd need to make any sort of power adjustment, though the breadth might be necessary for covering party roles.)
A Dual-Weapon Warrior practically writes itself as those are mostly solid feats. I'd couple it with Barbarian because the archetype covers the Barbarian's flaws. After that it matters a lot what the party composition is and your preferred backup plans are. Personally I'd go w/ Dragon Instinct because Dual-Weapon focuses well on single targets while Dragon covers groups w/ its AoE and leads to flight which in a smaller group might be more necessary to provide yourself. (Yes, the Giant Barb dominates is more traditional combats and should fit into most places w/ fewer PCs on the board, but I'd rather be strong across a spectrum of situations than extra-strong in mundane ones.)
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I'm personally more captivated by the following build as it's significantly more "balanced" and offers a bit more out-of-combat utility, it's a build I've been sitting on for a long time, it's only level 2 but it fills your requests pretty well.
Dual-Class Dual-Wield
Human fighter/rogue 2 (Advanced Player's Guide)
CG, Medium, Human, Humanoid
Heritage versatile heritage
Background scout
Perception +7 (+8 to find traps)
Languages Common, Goblin
Skills Acrobatics +8, Arcana +4, Athletics +7, Cave Lore +4, Deception +4, Intimidation +4, Medicine +7, Nature +5, Society +4, Stealth +8, Survival +5, Thievery +8, Wilderness Lore +4
Str 16 (+3), Dex 18 (+4), Con 14 (+2), Int 10 (+0), Wis 12 (+1), Cha 10 (+0)
Items leather armor, composite shortbow, daggers (4), sawtooth sabers (2), arrows (10), backpack, bedroll, chalks (10), flint and steel, grappling arrow[LOPFS]s (2), minor elixirs of life (3), rations (1 week)s (2), rope (foot)s (50), soap, torchs (5), waterskin, purse (2 gp, 2 sp)
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AC 19; Fort +8; Ref +10; Will +7; +1 circumstance bonus vs. traps
HP 32
Attack of Opportunity [R] Trigger A creature within your reach uses a manipulate action or a move action, makes a ranged attack, or leaves a square during a move action it’s using. Effect You lash out at a foe that leaves an opening. Make a melee Strike against the triggering creature. If your attack is a critical hit and the trigger was a manipulate action, you disrupt that action. This Strike doesn’t count toward your multiple attack penalty, and your multiple attack penalty doesn’t apply to this Strike.
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Speed 25 feet
Melee [1] dagger +10 (versatile S, thrown 10 ft., agile, finesse), Damage 1d4+3 P
Melee [1] sawtooth saber +10 (agile, finesse, twin), Damage 1d6+3 S
Ranged [1] composite shortbow +10 (deadly d10, propulsive, range increment 60 feet, reload 0), Damage 1d6+1 P
Ranged [1] dagger +10 (versatile S, thrown 10 ft., agile, finesse), Damage 1d4+3 P
Surprise Attack You spring into combat faster than foes can react. On the first round of combat, if you roll Deception or Stealth for initiative, creatures that haven’t acted are flat-footed to you.
Ancestry Feats Unconventional Weaponry
Class Feats Combat Assessment[APG], Double Slice, Intimidating Strike, Quick Draw, Trap Finder
General Feats Shield Block
Skill Feats Battle Medicine, Continual Recovery, Dubious Knowledge, Forager
Other Abilities mastermind, rogue's racket, shield block, sneak attack
It has the advantages of the best in class Weapon prof scaling, the Skill bonuses of Rogue, leverages bonuses to Recall Knowledge alongside free automatic Sneak Attack when you do so, gives you ways to save Action economy doing the Recall Knowledge baking it into an Attack, get access to one of the best Weapons in the system for Dual Wielding + Sneak Attack, can perform Battle Medicine healing, and has pretty good balanced physical stats without having to dump anything to any significant degree. I played this guy in a Discord scrimmage monster combat and he was on top of being a team player as far as identifying creatures (Dubious Knowledge allows you to Identify the Creature even on a failure at least half of the time BTW) his damage output when you get the opponent Flat-Footed and within melee range is quite respectable.
It may not be what you're looking for but I wanted to chime in since this guy has just been collecting dust since I spend two hours playing him in an Arena VS Monsters one-shot game.
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It's a solid build Themetricsystem, to tell you the truth I don't really know what I want to make my GM(who my Brother) wants us to make our characters 1st so he can get some ideas for the 1st adventure, I'm like well if we don't get at least a little clue to what he's thinking of doing it make's it really hard to choose something to make. I really was just seeing if there was any dual class build that maybe stuch in my head for more then an hour after I did at least the 1st 10 levels of what feats I'd take, I've gone thru like 20 different possible builds in the last week and a half, but there's still time were still doing Strength of a Thousands last session brought us to level 14 so that like what 1 book and half to 2 books to finish it up?
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It's no secret that Fighter makes for the most obvious base for any martial setup. As an alternative to the Fighter/Rogue above, consider the Fighter/Thaumaturge
Ancestry: Human, Half-Elf, or Aasimar
Ability Scores: 18/10/16/10/12/14
Alignment: LG
Ancestry feats:
1) Unconventional weaponry (flickmace)
5) General training (see below), Ageless Patience (half elf, no 1fA in party) or
Blessed blood (aasimar, campaign specific)
9) multitalented (sorc)
13) free
17) free
General feats:
3) Toughness, Fleet or Ancestral Paragon (Nimble Elf)
7) Toughness, Fleet or Ancestral Paragon
11) Incredible Initiative
15) Incredible investiture
19) free
Class feats (order FA, Fighter, Thaum):
01) Sudden charge, Diverse Lore
02) Champion dedication, Lunge, Familiar
04) Healing Touch, Basic Devotion (ranged reprisal), Enhanced familiar
06) Champion's reaction, Sleepwalker dedication, vision of foresight
08) Dream magic, blind fight, divine ally (Blade)
10) basic casting, combat reflexes, know-it-all
12) expert casting, sentinel dedication, mighty bulwark
14) caster dedication, basic casting, esoteric reflexes
16) spell breadth, expert casting, implement's flight
18) master casting, master casting, intense implement
20) spell breadth, boundless reprisals, wonder worker
Kitchen sink character. Legendary attacks, master heavy armor, M/M/M/L saves, 5 legendary skills with tome, super knowledge with diverse lore, sleepwalker for skill rerolls out of combat, reactions for every occasion, psuedo amulet and chalice from champion, spells, flight, and so on.
Can trade out flickmace for a two hander or skip using implements in combat to work in knockdown and improved knockdown or double slice with a gauntlet (or both, why not?).
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Nice build I'm not sure about Sleepwalker tho, and with Familiar what Familiar Abilities would you suggest? I assume when the Sorcerer spells kick in I'd be taking the master abilities like spell battery and Cantrip Connection or maybe the Familiar Focus that is if theres Focus spells in there I've not fully gone thru all the build. And at 12th you dip into sentinel dedication, mighty bulwark but at 14th your jumping into another caster dedication would I not need another Sentinel feat 1st? Also what bloodline would you suggest and this 2nd caster dedication which would you suggest?
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Nice build I'm not sure about Sleepwalker tho, and with Familiar what Familiar Abilities would you suggest? I assume when the Sorcerer spells kick in I'd be taking the master abilities like spell battery and Cantrip Connection or maybe the Familiar Focus that is if theres Focus spells in there I've not fully gone thru all the build. And at 12th you dip into sentinel dedication, mighty bulwark but at 14th your jumping into another caster dedication would I not need another Sentinel feat 1st? Also what bloodline would you suggest and this 2nd caster dedication which would you suggest?
Sentinel has a skill feat you can take that satisfies the archetype requirement. For familiar, just load it up with skill abilities for self sufficient aid out of combat. For the casters, arcane and occult traditions will get you most of the useful spells. Don't feel married to the multitalented choice at 9 either. You can put just about anything there like psychic or an int dedication like alch if you're a half-elf and can waive the stat requirements.
Sleepwalker is only there for skill rerolls out of combat. Makes you an excellent skill monkey between that, aid and 5 legendary skills
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What if instead you still go Fighter/Thaumaturge but build it more around doing a Witcher like build lean more in INT then CHA and throw in Alchemist dedication for some Mutagen crafting, and at higher level maybe throw in Inventor dedication (Weapon innovation) to get the Basic Modification feat which is 8th level and grab either the mods of Entangling Form or Razor Prongs, I would still go the Flickmace.
I do like the Fighter/Thaumaturge idea it fits well into our Homebrew World when we last played our homebrew we were playing 5e D&D and I had made up a mercenary/knight order using the class made by Matt Mercer from the Critical Role show his Blood Hunter https://www.gmbinder.com]/share/-M6TxqOQUbjay1D289p_(not sure how to set this a a clickable link)
which was made for Vin Diesel when he did a guest appearance, I had been resigned to thinking that another of my contributions to our Homebrew was to be scrapped with the switching to PF2 ruleset( the other PF2 has yet to add a Ancestry like D&D Goliath). But with the Thaumaturge I might be able to keep my merc/knight order in the game
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Thaumaturge uses cha for its universal knowledge with no built-in option to replace it. If your gm lets you use int, then go for it. I'd stay from combat mutagens though. Only use them to enhance skills you don't have items for out of combat.
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That right I forgot that CHA was Thaum's key score.
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Question if you went the Mind smith archetype would you be able to make there mind weapon the Weapon Implement of the Thaumaturge?
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Generally speaking, no. For it to be a Thm Weapon Implement it must be a mundane version of a specific type of eligible Weapon that you have access to which is completely at odds with the fact that nothing about the Mind Weapon is in any way mundane, the stats are unique, it has no name, it's not listed in any book, the traits can and often will change every day during morning prep.
That said, if you really like the concept you can ask your GM if they're willing to overlook that stuff but by RAW this definitely doesn't mesh with the Thm Weapon Implement Class Feature.
Also, one thing to bear in mind just for the Mind Weapon is that if you want to get it inscribed with Runes then you will have to have your own PC do it personally using the Craft Magical Item Feat since no individual other than yourself can use, handle, hold, or wield it, in other words, the Mind Smith in order to be even remotely feasible as you advance in level requires you pay a "Feat tax" and spend your own personal downtime in order to apply Runes to it.
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For the Mind Smith you don't put weapon rune on the mind weapon you do it on,
Upon creating your mind weapon, you also learn to use a mind smith's keepsake: an object of light Bulk, such as a bracelet or figurine, that you wear or keep on your person and inscribe with weapon runes. Your keepsake can't be a magic item, nor can it have any significant monetary value beyond the value of any runes you inscribe on it. You can buy and inscribe fundamental runes and weapon property runes onto your keepsake in the same way you would for a regular weapon, and you can move runes to and from your keepsake to other weapons or runestones for the usual cost. Any runes inscribed on the keepsake apply to your mind weapon when you create it. If your keepsake is ever lost or destroyed, you can spend 1 week of downtime imprinting a new object with your weapon's mental properties, though this new keepsake won't have any of the runes that were inscribed on the prior keepsake.
Which would mean if your not doing it yourself you would have to hand your keepsake over to someone else to do it
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I have a build Question using my guide lines of dual classing and Free Archetype how would you build for those who have played Final Fantasy 14
how would you build a Dark Knight or Reaper? I'd see Magus as a starting point for probably both jobs, and the giving over yourself to the Darkness/Fiendish powers could easily be Sorcerer with something like Demonic, Diabolic, Shadow, maybe even Hag, Psychopomp, or Undead, or you could go something like Witch so you wouldn't have to make a more MAD character with you already going STR and INT for Magus but I only see the Night patron fitting for maybe a Dark Knight. You could go one of the Evil Champion causes but the Dark Knight and Reaper in the game don't let the Dark/fiend taint them and turn them evil. I know there's always the Homebrew up an Archetype option but I'm loath to go down that path my GM is difficult in the sense that if it wasn't his idea 1st it's like pulling teeth with him. I guess there always the option of doing something like a Fighter/Thaumaturge and go Bastard Sword and Dual handed assault for Dark knight for the free hand free for the Thaum's implement and for Reaper to use the scythe weapon there always the Lion Scythe from the Pathfinder #172: Secrets of the Temple City Strength of a Thousand adventure path.
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I'm sorry I'm all over the place it's going to be weeks before my group will be playing are Homebrew so as every day goes by I think up some other dual class free Archetype combo, a build that hits hard so I assuming that Giant Instinct Barb would be the way to go but I've played one he was my 1st ever PF2 character and was cut down like in the 2nd combat encounter of the Age of Ashes adventure path of course he was my 1st character on a new system so some of that can be blamed but for the google the talk seem to point towards GI Barbs hit hard but can be hit back in kind so if I went GI Barb with the dual class rules and free archetype my GM is using I might be able to shore up those weak points. I.E. maybe by going Champion and using a on handed weapon and shield, or maybe going Fighter to lean in to the best defense is a good offense route and get legendary with what ever weapon I choose to go with, or maybe even doing a caster for the 2nd class in the dual class I know well raging I won't be able to cast spells but I could always have buffs I could do before I go into a rage. I'm trying to figure out a Giant Instinct builds 1 a kill it before it kills me glass cannon type, 2 a weapon shield build that I still hit hard just not like a Mack truck, but maybe a mid size sedan. And a barbarian combo with a caster class which doesn't have to be Giant Instinct, I might be either thinking of PF1 or maybe 5e D&D but there might be options out there that makes me think a Barb caster might be able to work out well like maybe a barb/sorcerer one or both could be Dragon instinct or Dragon/Wyrmblessed blood line, Dragon Disciple I know in some cases there ability stack but in some the don't with barb all your Dragon stuff only happens well raging, with sorcerer you'd have those dragon abilites out of a rage. Sorry rambling here its 4am(but if it was yeasterday it be 5am now I forgot about daylight savings and all my clocks switch the times on there own).
If it help I can give a little of what are Homebrew world is like(that is if the GM didnt make more changes and not tell me yet) and what the other 2 players are going to make. If you read any Mercedes Lackey Valdemar books we borrowed heavy from that are main area has a school like the Valdemar's Collegium, are is the Academe, our GM made up a Heralds/Companions Archetype, and the borrowed from a few other books I havent read and some is thought up by must of us.
The 1st players says he's making a Swashbuckler/Bard I'm not 100% on the Archetype, and the 2nd player is like me and has changed his mind a few times but has kept going back to a Gunslinger/Rogue he wants to build a long gun shooter and I can't think of the Archetype he said could be Sniping Duo if on of us are his spotter I guess. Sorry rambling it's alte I should get some sleep CYA PF Commmnuity
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You wanna kill stuff quick and it's allowed, go dual wielding rogue flurry ranger with Soulforger archetype. At 6th level the bard should have Dirge of doom and you Dread striker.
Think I narrowing it down thinking either a dwarf or Human(Oread) Fighter/Champion sword and board build with shield ally and eventually taking a 2nd ally in either blade or the steed depending of what are GM has planed for us, I just don't know what I put my free Archetype feats into? I could go Marshal and just take feat for the aura bonus are Bard not going to be putting out, I kinda picture it as the stereotypical Knight in shinning Armor but not knowing if were going to be doing any heavy combat against undead kinda seems a waste of the archetype feats to do any of the Lastwall Archetypes and the Hell Knight stuff would take some cooperation with my GM which I don't know I'd get so I got no clue what I'd take for the free Archetype feat? Any suggestions?
I had also came up with one more build that seemed cool might not be totally optimized with our homebrew starting out when we played D&D 5e we had Dragonborn as a big part of are world Lore and with Pathfinder 2E we just plopped Lizard Folk into that role, so I had Thought a Lizard Folk either Fighter/Sorcerer (either with Draconic bloodline or Wyrmblessed) Dragon Disciple and maybe dipping into Champion Dedication sense I'm probably not going to use all those fighter feats I'd like to still sword and board I might have to dip into Bastion 1st and delay Dragon Disciple and champion so I can get Nimble Shield Hand which I think should allow me to cast my Sorcerer spell well having sword and shield in hand. Or I can to the flip of it and go Champion/Sorcerer Bastion for Nimble Shield Hand
and what ever for 2nd feat and then go Dragon Disciple at 8th or sooner if I sacrifice some of my class feats maybe Sorcerer and spare a few to get into my Archetypes faster. Any thoughts on improving my builds proposals here? The Lizard folk isnt set in stone just though it would look cool thematically.
So found out today our GM doesn't want to do our Homebrew world and we will be doing another adventure path and sound like he still wants to try dual class out, so with out to many spoilers what would be a good dual class combo based the Adventure path we may play we haven't done Fist of the Ruby Phoenix, Quest for the Frozen Flame, Outlaws of Alkenstar, Blood Lords, or Kingmaker(didn't play the 1E version). Example would be for the Mortal Kombat fell of Fist of the Ruby Phoenix I'd guess Monk dual classed with what ever would be a good fit.
So as I said were doing Fist of The Ruby Phoenix and I'm thinking a Fighter/Rogue Thief Racket with Aldori Duelist/Acrobat and was wondering with the class feats I've chosen is the rogue feat tumble behind and the acrobat feat Tumbling Strike sufficient enough for getting flat footed for sneak attack? I've got my feats chosen up to 10th level for my class which are as follows.
01)Tumble Behind, Sudden Charge
02)Unbalancing Blow, Snagging Strike, Aldori Dueliset Dedication
04)Quick Reversal, Reactive Pursuit, Duelist's Edge
06)Shatter Defenses, Gang Up, Aldori Parry
08)Disorienting Opening, Twist the Knife ,Acrobat Dedication
10) Combat Reflexes, Methodical Debilitations, Tumbling Strike
is there a better combination of feats? I could choose. I could drop the Acrobat I guess but the free skill up to Legendary for Acrobatics is kinda nice.
So it looks like were probably doing Quest for the Frozen Flame and I'm thinking of doing a Ranger with an Animal Companion was thinking maybe cat but was wondering how bad it would gimp me if I did a mount capable companion like horse or Riding Drake? like is there way to much dungeon crawl to make having a Large Animal not to bright?
No experience with Quest for the Frozen Flame, but I do have experience with horse companions as a medium creature. Don't do it, it is not worth it unless almost every encounter is outdoors. As soon as you need to do indoor fighting it becomes a dead feature that eats a lot of your feats.
Cat is a great companion, though. Specially if you are going to use a bow.