Some things are set, we are currently level 9 and before the third book of the age of ashes campaign. Ulan Dhor is a human ranger from Thuvia whose basic stick is fighting with two hatchets (no animal companion).
We use the free archetype variant, and I chose Rogue.
Hatchets (both +1 striking, one returning) are for throwing and melee and with Far Throw and Hunt Prey active I can throw 40 feet without penalties.
The rest of the party are Healbot Cleric, Caster-Blaster (Wizard), Monk (strangely the meatshield, more or less) and one who might be a gunslinger.
I am interested in general feats, ancestry feats, skill feats, I think I have attributes and class feats covered, but I take suggestions. My main skills are Stealth and Survival (both Master prof.).
Thanks in advance
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I'm not double checking feat names, so excuse me if some are wrong.
Max strength, then probably dex.
Class feats: Natural Ambition is a really solid pick. If you want to also use a longbow as baçk up get hunted shot. Snag Monster Hunter or a pet. Quickdraw is a must. And obviously you probably had Twin Takedown in mind as the most important feat.
General feats: hard to argue with toughness or fleet. Boring but effective. I like that thing Patient Searching feat but I'm blanking on the name. Personally, I'd skip the Improved Initiative feat. If you're Avoiding Notice you probably get a +2 circumstance bonus from cover already.
Skill feats: Terrain Stalker, Quiet Allies, and Quick Sneak are the most important. I'm a fan of Survey Wildlife but there's a degree of GM fiat involved that might be worth discussing ahead of time.
Nature makes a good third skill, especially at higher levels once Master Monster Hunter comes into play.
Hi Captain Morgan, thanks a lot for your suggestions. Most things you suggested, were already part of my build. (Played books one and two with him, but after a long break GM allowed us to respec or change characters, but I only want minor changes)
But: until now: no pet, no monster hunter
Survey Wildlife was automatic via hunter background.
I took Toughness and Fleet.
Quickdraw did not really work out for me, because for Twin Take Down I always need two weapons in my hands.
Nature is my third best skill.
The build until now:
Class feats are Twin Takedown, Gravity Weapon (via Natural Ambition), Relentless Stalker, Disrupt Prey, Far Shot, Nimble Dodge (via free archetype), Blind Fight, Skillmastery (free archetype), Sneak Attacker (free archetype)
Skill Feats are: Survey Wildlife, Quiet Allies, Terrain Stalker, Foil Senses, Cat Fall, Streetwise, Experienced Tracker,
General Feats: Fleet, Toughness, Swift Sneak
Ancestry Feats: Natural Ambition, Clever Improviser, Incredible Improvisation (almost never needed the last two).
Took no medicine stuff, because three players already did, one of them is the healbot cleric.
Master Skills: Survival & Stealth
Expert Skills: Acrobatics & Nature
Trained: Athletics, Deception, Diplomacy, Society, Thievery.
I also wonder which class feat to take at level 10.
That's a solid build. I guess you don't need Quick draw if you really just want to be a hatchet man. My rangers always wind up as switch hitters, and if a target closes on me I can quick draw > quick draw > twin takedown.
Relentless Stalker isn't necessary with Disrupt Prey. Gravity Weapon could also be cut.
Monster Hunter is a good feat by itself. Monster Warden is bad by itself. But Master Monster Hunter makes all three feats insanely good. Really solid set if you can find the room in your build, though you might need to swap survival and nature priority if you want to qualify at 10th.
Warden's Boon is suuuuper juicy with a monk in the party. Trading one of your attacks for the monk getting flurry on 4 attacks is hella sweet, though if the monk has other uses for those actions it becomes less attractive. Still, worth talking to your fellow player about, especially once Shared Prey comes online.
If you're usually fighting in natural terrain, camouflage is pretty great, even after the errata nerf. Hiding successfully at the end of your turn will give you a 50% miss chance defense, flatfooted on your first strike next round, and the ability to sneak into a new position next round. I'd like it more on a flurry ranger, though.
Thanks again, I already changed my build somewhat yesterday and my thoughts on the monster hunter line mirror yours: a +1 to hit is so important in this edition and knowing the weaknesses of an enemy is not bad either (and all without action cost). I threw out Relentless Stalker and took Monster Hunter for it. Level 10 will be Master Monster Hunter - I get another free archetype feat at 10 which will again go to Skill Mastery, so Nature becomes a master skill.
Already thought about taking Warden's Boon for my monk buddy, because fists are agile and he will definitely profit from Hunt Prey + Flurry.
We just should always fight against the same enemy if possible.
I like gravity weapon but it only activates on the first strike and if you don't hit with it, it is wasted, so it is probably a candidate to be swapped out for Warden's Boon. Sadly that does not work: I have to switch it with Blind Fight, as both are have level 8 as a requirement.
I guess I will retrain gravity weapon (2nd level) for monster warden when we hit level 10, which will take some time as we only recently reached level 9.
Planned class feats open for debate:
12 Double Prey
14 Blind Fight (?)
16 Second Sting (?)
18 Impossible Flurry
20 Accurate Flurry (?)
The other question: Do I go on with the rogue archetype after level ten or do I take another dedication? Until now I don't see too much reason to change it, as taking advanced tricks or skill mastery is very good I think.
I think I don't need to be a switch hitter as hatchets work for ranged and melee. 40 feet range is not super great, but were mostly okay it seemed.
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Yeah, if you're fighting indoors 40 feet is probably fine. I like packing a longbow just in case, personally.
Sticking to Rogue seems like a fine enough choice. Depending on your party tactics, feats like Gang Up and Dread Striker may be useful. However, I think the scout and dual weapon warrior archetypes are worth considering.
Scout offers some serious mobility enhancements. Dual Weapon Warrior does as well, and Dual Thrower may come in handy. It may be less useful at higher levels, though. I'm not sure how Dual Slice > Twin Takedown maths out compared to Twin Takedown > Second sting> second sting. But Dual Thrower and Dual Weapon Blitz are both great for you. Maybe it is worth doing so you don't need to prioritize Second Sting as much. (It is a great feat, but leaving it to 16 like you did here might be the right call.)
Your class feats look solid. I don't think you should need blind fight with two casters in the party. Hopefully one of them is preparing glitterdust or fairy fire. Double Prey is an excellent choice with Thrown Weapons. But if you're taking Double Prey and Warden's Boon, you should really snag Shared Prey. It will turn you and the monk into an absolutely terrifying combo.
You've got a great build here! You've clearly thought out the strengths of your class.
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You might want to check soulforger, which is super useful. Summon and dismiss weapons/armor anytime, way better than QuickDraw for dual wielders. And the powers aren't bad either (once per day).
You're already going for Monster hunter, that would have been my next advice.
L12 look at double prey. Very useful for hatchet wielders due to sweep. Get a +1 circumstance bonus if you attack a second target with the same weapon.
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Soul forger is strong as hell, especially if you're doing dungeon crawls with little time pressure. Planar Pain rocks anything with a weakness or resistance you can identify, and against something with both like a devil? Absolute murder.
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Super strong indeed, but for RP purposes having a FP char walk around normally is also very nice. The char is also a dual wielding ranger, but also a very good medic who works in a hospital sometimes. Walking around normally is a big plus, no more armor or weapons visible. Until a fight starts and all of a sudden the harmless bystander is suddenly a metal played blender.
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Is this pretty much what he looked like at first level? I'm just trying to work out his progression.
Ulan Dhor 1
Male human ranger 1 (Advanced Player's Guide)
NG, Medium, Human, Humanoid
Heritage versatile heritage
Background hunter
Perception +6 (+8 to Seek hunted prey)
Languages Common, Osiriani
Skills Acrobatics +6, Athletics +7, Diplomacy +3, Nature +4, Society +3, Stealth +6, Survival +4 (+6 to Track hunted prey), Tanning Lore +3
Str 18 (+4), Dex 16 (+3), Con 12 (+1), Int 10 (+0), Wis 12 (+1), Cha 10 (+0)
Items leather armor, dagger, hatchet, hatchet, longbow (20 arrows), backpack, bedroll, belt pouch, belt pouch, chalks (10), flint and steel, rations (1 week)s (2), rope (foot)s (50), sheath, soap, torchs (5), waterskin, purse (5 gp, 1 sp)
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AC 17; Fort +6; Ref +8; Will +4
HP 20
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Speed 25 feet
Melee [1] dagger +7 (versatile S, thrown 10 ft., agile, finesse), Damage 1d4+4 P
Melee [1] hatchet +7 (thrown 10 ft., sweep, agile), Damage 1d6+4 S
Melee [1] hatchet +7 (thrown 10 ft., sweep, agile), Damage 1d6+4 S
Ranged [1] dagger +6 (versatile S, thrown 10 ft., agile, finesse), Damage 1d4+4 P
Ranged [1] hatchet +6 (thrown 10 ft., sweep, agile), Damage 1d6+4 S
Ranged [1] hatchet +6 (thrown 10 ft., sweep, agile), Damage 1d6+4 S
Ranged [1] longbow +6 (deadly d10, volley 30, range increment 100 feet, reload 0), Damage 1d8 P
Focus Spells 1 Focus Point, DC 14; 1st Gravity Weapon
Flurry You have trained to unleash a devastating flurry of attacks upon your prey. Your multiple attack penalty for attacks against your hunted prey is –3 (–2 with an agile weapon) on your second attack of the turn instead of –5, and –6 (–4 with an agile weapon) on your third or subsequent attack of the turn, instead of –10.
Ancestry Feats Natural Ambition
Class Feats Gravity Weapon[APG], Twin Takedown
General Feats Toughness
Skill Feats Survey Wildlife
Other Abilities hunt prey, hunter's edge, warden spells
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Thanks a lot Captain Morgan (again) and Falco271 for your further suggestions. I will definitely look into all the mentioned archetypes. I had Dual Thrower on the list, but wasn't sure if it wasn't redundant somehow.
@Ed Reppert: That comes very close, if I remember correctly. But in the beginning I had a heavy crossbow and the second class feat was Crossbow Ace which I retrained into Gravity Bow. Attributes are correct as well.
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Just as a note, you might want to get a silver hatchet, and a cold iron hatchet, then transfer the +1 striking runes to them. At level seven you have access to standard (middle) grade cold iron and silver, at about 250 GP per bulk... a hatchet is bulk 'L', so it costs you 25 GP for one.
As an added bonus, get an Adamantine gauntlet for one hand; 350 GP per bulk , so 35 for one hand. If you run into constructs, etc, you drop/sheath the hatchet and start punching. First available at level eight.
If anyone is interested in the build, but wants to optimize a little more: Light Hammers are better in every way for this build (range increment doubled and bludgeoning, same damage; the sweep trait of the hatchet is almost worthless for a ranger (exception: you have double prey, are not using it in conjunction with Shared Prey and the opponents are adjacent).
For me it was just a question of style and the inspiration for the build was "Tracker", the protagonist from "Black Leopard Red Wolf" by Marlon James.
If anyone is interested in the build, but wants to optimize a little more: Light Hammers are better in every way for this build (range increment doubled and bludgeoning, same damage; the sweep trait of the hatchet is almost worthless for a ranger (exception: you have double prey, are not using it in conjunction with Shared Prey and the opponents are adjacent).
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And there is even a talisman that can give you sweep so indeed, hammers are better. Or kukris for the trip , dogslicers for the damage, sawtooths also.
But in the end the differences are small. Just go with what you want.
Btw, until you actually need 2x agile (for sneak, or lvl 18 imposs flurry) you can just use a d8 normal weapon and an agile weapon for the second attack. Warhammer plus light hammer with returning on the LH.
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Some weapons have the twin trait, which gives a bonus to damage equal to the number of damage dice on your second attack when your first was with the other weapon. Sawtooths for example.
Talismans are useful, but it only gets one use, and then it takes ten minutes to affix another one to the weapon. How many should you carry?