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Looks to me like you've posted enough evidence to understand the intent of the rules.
Once you know the intent, why would the raw much matter?
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The Roc statblock has no bearing on the animal companion version so it's not a good place to look for rules advice for them. Also your animal can't become Gargantuan either so doesn't seem like you can get an adult roc regardless.
Skilled Nature users can get a Roc as a flying mount with a skill feat printed in the CRB called Bonded Animal.
You can also use Trampling Charge with fly speed by using the companion item Barding of the Zephyr.
No flying animal companion has the mount ability for a reason and that is because PF2 is very averse to give you flying speeds at low levels and permanent flying speed is even harder to get.
The Roc statblock has no bearing on the animal companion version so it's not a good place to look for rules advice for them.
Oh is that where the quotes were from? Now I feel mislead.
By the rules, I do not know of a way that a roc animal companion can fly with a rider.
By house rules, the druid in my party regularly flies around on her roc animal companion.
The intent in the rules are that PC flying is restricted to higher levels. For example, the winged strix ancestry has the starting ability to jump further, can take Nestling Fall ancestry feat 1 for gentle falling, Fledgling Flight ancestry feat 5 for land-at-end-of-turn flight, Juvenile Flight ancestry feat 9 for 10 minutes of flight per day, and Fully Flighted ancestry feat 13 for unlimited flight. Contrast this to Strix Kinmate, creature 2, with Fly Speed 25 feet.
I think that the developers' reasoning is that PCs who can take to the sky and safely defeat ground-bound monsters with ranged attacks are overpowered at low levels. Thus, costless flight is delayed to 13th level where most monsters will be able to strike back against airborne ranged attackers with their own flight or ranged attacks. Medium-level flight has costs and time limits. The 4th-level Fly costs a spell slot and is limited to 5 minutes, while the 7th-level version (13th-level spellcaster) costs a higher spell slot and lasts 1 hour. The 6th-level version of Phantom Steed gives a flying steed for 8 hours.
The animal companion rules state that animal companions can fly while being ridden only if they have the mount trait. Currently, no animal companions have both mount and natural flight. Even the Riding Drake animal companion with mount trait is flightless.
The druid Stormdancer acquired a flying roc mount through roleplaying. When the party liberated Fort Trevalay in Fangs of War at 8th level, three of the enemy hobgoblin rangers had roc animal companions. They, like the roc companions in Mammoth Lords, were merely big birds. That seemed disappoiinting, so I made the rocs large and gave them fledgling flight while carrying a Small or Medium creature. They had to land, fall, or drop their passenger at the end of turn. I figured an interesting attack would be the roc grabbing a PC and flying up 25 feet (half their speed at a 45-degree angle) to drop their victim. NPCs are allowed to fly.
Surprisingly, the druid adopted a roc after the party killed its handler. She had to keep the roc as a pet for two levels as she retrained and took feats to acquire a mature animal companion. Thus, the player worked hard to earn this animal companion. And she had taken Wind Caller druid feat 8 at 8th level, so she already had the Stormwind Flight focus spell for 1 minute of flight.
Once Roxie Roc was a full animal companion, I declared that the druid Stormdancer could cast Stormwind Flight on Roxie, too. If she did, the wind let Roxie carry a rider while flying and the duration increased to 10 minutes. Furthermore, flying peacefully on Roxie counted as a Refocus activity. Thus, Stormdancer could use Roxie as a flying mount with fly speed 50 feet for long-distance travel. The rest of the party, besides the champion with her own animal companion steed and the monk with his incredible walking speed, traveled via Phantom Steed.
The deciding factors behind this house rule was that the druid could already fly during combat, having her own steed made party travel more convenient, and I liked the flavor. In the recent August 12 game session the sorcerer had to conjure up 11 Phantom Steeds for the party and the people they escorted, so I was glad that three party members did not need phantom steeds.
One way to bypass the land-speed-only restriction on riding an animal companion is to ride an eidolon instead. Make a summoner with an eidolon resembling a roc. Beast eidolon would be the obvious choice, but other eidolons, such as angels, dragons, or psychopomps, have a strong association with wings. Then take Glider Form evolution feat 1, Steed Form summoner feat 2, and Airborne Form summoner feat 14. Add Hulking Size summoner feat 8 or cast Evolution Surge for size frequently if the summoner is Medium, but casting Evolution Surge for flight is possible at 9th level.
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How do you tell players that the bad guys can ride flying mounts, but that once they kill the bad guys and captures said mounts, they can't?
I'm not ever doing that no matter what thr rules indicate.
How do you tell players that the bad guys can ride flying mounts, but that once they kill the bad guys and captures said mounts, they can't?
I'm not ever doing that no matter what thr rules indicate.
You could tell them, "You did not raise the roc from the egg, so it refuses to become your animal companion."
Particularly skilled druids or rangers might capture and train a roc to serve as a flying mount or hunting companion, though examples of such an incredible feat of domestication are few and far between. The easiest way to rear a roc is to do so from the moment it hatches, since the chick imprints on the first creature it sees. Acquiring a roc egg is by no means an easy feat, though, and is often a death sentence for the would-be egg-snatcher.
How do you tell players that the bad guys can ride flying mounts, but that once they kill the bad guys and captures said mounts, they can't?
I'm not ever doing that no matter what thr rules indicate.
You could tell them, "You did not raise the roc from the egg, so it refuses to become your animal companion."
Particularly skilled druids or rangers might capture and train a roc to serve as a flying mount or hunting companion, though examples of such an incredible feat of domestication are few and far between. The easiest way to rear a roc is to do so from the moment it hatches, since the chick imprints on the first creature it sees. Acquiring a roc egg is by no means an easy feat, though, and is often a death sentence for the would-be egg-snatcher.
Why would they want them as animal companions? Animal companions can't fly you about.
I think access to flying all the time might be about to get squarely set in the Rage of Elements book, possibly at levels 8-14 for individuals that can't be shared with others (8 at the very earliest and possibly as the earliest super power of the Air Kineticist, so unlikely to be matched by any other class), at 14th level for all day flight that can be shared with other party members (also at the earliest, and only for the "best at flight" class, with level 17 probably more likely as a general ability.
An animal companion that can fly for long periods of time and carry anyone in a pinch is probably somewhere in the middle, pushing more towards the later levels: probably in that 14 to 17 range.
But any character can train a roc to fly with a rider if they spend the time to do so. It will just stay a roc and not be an animal companion and might take some difficult training to take a new rider if the old one dies, especially if the Roc was bonded to that rider.
Why would they want them as animal companions? Animal companions can't fly you about.How do you tell players that the bad guys can ride flying mounts, but that once they kill the bad guys and captures said mounts, they can't?
I'm not ever doing that no matter what thr rules indicate.
You could tell them, "You did not raise the roc from the egg, so it refuses to become your animal companion."
Particularly skilled druids or rangers might capture and train a roc to serve as a flying mount or hunting companion, though examples of such an incredible feat of domestication are few and far between. The easiest way to rear a roc is to do so from the moment it hatches, since the chick imprints on the first creature it sees. Acquiring a roc egg is by no means an easy feat, though, and is often a death sentence for the would-be egg-snatcher.
If the bad guys' flying mounts are not animal companions yet are trained to take riders, then riding them would take regular Command an Animal actions. Horses are bred pretty docile and go along with Stride commands for long-distance travel, but a wilder breed such as a zebra or pegasus would have a higher Will save against a rider's commands. A roc has Will DC 26. Imagine riding a flying mount high over the ground and critically failing a command. The mount might drop you. Avoiding such a fate would require +25 bonus to Nature checks, such as +6 from master proficiency, +15 from level, and +4 from Wisdom.
For safer riding, a lesser PC could take a week for a Train an Animal activity to always succeed at a Stride command, followed by another week for a Fly command.
This could work for Blackmill's character: a trained non-companion roc for riding.
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Had this discussion with one of my people when we played Quest for the Frozen Flame.
I believe our conclusions were:
- Mammoth Lords are associated with riding exotic megafauna, not just having them around as pets
- Rocs are provided as sample Mammoth Lord companions
- The Mount property is not on any of the sample companions provided on page 73 but they are assumed to be rideable
- Ride is a prerequisite for Mammoth Lord dedication
- Various other feats (as indicated in this discussion) imply that riding mounts is a large part of the archetype
- Giants ride Rocs in the actual AP
- Rocs have a 20 foot movement speed on land while other megafauna have 25-35 feet (and birds don't generally cover great distances on foot)
- It would be absurd to penalize the character that chose a flying companion with having to ground-pound and hold the group back while all their pals got to ride along at a leisurely pace on the backs of rhinos, mammoths, etc.
Therefore we concluded you can ride on a Roc, at least in a non-combat situation.
Also the AP was damn near over at that point and they were already level 9 so the concerns about game-breaking flying at level 3 weren't really issues. (sidenote: I feel like there should be a level prerequisite for taking Mammoth Lord)
I understand why people might choose not to give their players a Roc otherwise.
However at least in Quest for the Frozen Flame saying that a flying mount would unbalance the game doesn't carry much water
Skilled Nature users can get a Roc as a flying mount with a skill feat printed in the CRB called Bonded Animal.
You can also use Trampling Charge with fly speed by using the companion item Barding of the Zephyr.
No flying animal companion has the mount ability for a reason and that is because PF2 is very averse to give you flying speeds at low levels and permanent flying speed is even harder to get.
I'm okay with a Roc just having implied Barding of the Zephyr, btw. This seems like the best compromise.
It seems really bizarre to heavily feature roc mounts, present them as an acquirable companion, and then specifically write that druids and rangers take them as flying mounts, but then contain no provision anywhere to actually use them as a flying mount.
I mean I understand that Paizo is very hesitant and treats long term flight as a very high level feature, but it feels weird for the game to drop so many allusions to the idea if it's intended to be completely out of bounds.