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Sure it doesn't work if you take the rules overly literal, but in this case it's obvious that the intention is to allow you to hide and reload.
If you assume that reloading falls under "a particularly unobtrusive action" but it would be best if this sort of thing were explicit.
I get that it could be better written, but this is pretty low hanging fruit and then intention is pretty obvious to allow reload not to break your hide attempt.
Some things are more obvious than others. Covered Reload is very obvious.
Pistolero's reload (without looking at the entry) sounds like it's not designed for dual pistol use, and that's okay.
so that description is from the Way of Pistolero, not a specific feat right? To be honest, it doesn't bother me then that Raconteir's Reload doesn't stipulate anything about not needing a free hand to reload. Dual Weapon reload is a level 1 feat freely available.
The fact that this way mentions it's compatible with dual pistols to me doesn't mean that you should expect it for free. The solution is already easily available.
Given everything that I've seen, I think the description from Way of the Pisolero is flavor text, with no obvious intention of making sure everything works with dual pistols without additional investment. The other abilities from Way of the Pistolero do seem like they would work, regardless of free hands but I don't really take that as evidence.
As it sits I would say "No, the reload ability is not intended to not need a free hand, take the feat to make it work if you decide to dual wield pistols."
However, to me this is very different from the Covered Reload ability which states "Hey you can do this and try to hide" and then you look at the hide rules and see that you can't. That ability very intentionally tells you that you should be able to hide when using this ability. So even though it doesn't explicitly grant an exception to the normal hide rules, it's only logical to assume that the ability is intend to work at doing what it says it should be able to do.
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Sure it doesn't work if you take the rules overly literal, but in this case it's obvious that the intention is to allow you to hide and reload.
If you assume that reloading falls under "a particularly unobtrusive action" but it would be best if this sort of thing were explicit.
I get that it could be better written, but this is pretty low hanging fruit and then intention is pretty obvious to allow reload not to break your hide attempt.
Yes. But it is still a terrible rule.
The way people think is a spectrum. Many people, especially gamers and people in the STEM industries - who are over represented as PF2 customers - are overly literal.
Hey, I resemble that remark.
:P
so that description is from the Way of Pistolero, not a specific feat right? To be honest, it doesn't bother me then that Raconteir's Reload doesn't stipulate anything about not needing a free hand to reload. Dual Weapon reload is a level 1 feat freely available.
The fact that this way mentions it's compatible with dual pistols to me doesn't mean that you should expect it for free. The solution is already easily available.
It is from the way of pistolero indeed.
As for the lvl 1 feat, we both know it's an easily available solution, but since it's a game concerning a limited pool of feats the character can choose among, knowing whether it's intended to work with either two one handed ranged weapons or not ( especially when the class itself assumes you can choose either ways ) feels legit.
And I want to underline I am not saying it's one way or the other ( but just that I feel doubts legit given the context ).
I dunno, the context is a line that says you might "cultivate the ambidexterity for twin weapons". Cultivate here means essentially "develop", since you're not doing anything with actual plants.
Sounds exactly like taking a feat to "cultivate the ambidexterity" to me. Pretty unambiguous.
However, to me this is very different from the Covered Reload ability which states "Hey you can do this and try to hide" and then you look at the hide rules and see that you can't. That ability very intentionally tells you that you should be able to hide when using this ability. So even though it doesn't explicitly grant an exception to the normal hide rules, it's only logical to assume that the ability is intend to work at doing what it says it should be able to do.You've still not discussed the GM fiat part, or if someone wants to reload in hiding without being a gunslinger. Crossbows are already bad enough.
Here's a similar situation: Hide only calls out Strikes benefitting from flat-footed, then you become observed. Vital Shot (and many other similar activities) are not strikes, but activities that allow a Strike to be performed. But as per the Subordinate Actions rule, you become observed before you act.
Using an activity is not the same as using any of its subordinate actions [...] As another example, if you used an action that specified, “If the next action you use is a Strike,” an activity that includes a Strike wouldn’t count, because the next thing you are doing is starting an activity, not using the Strike basic action.You cease being hidden if you do anything except Hide, Sneak, or Step. If you attempt to Strike a creature, the creature remains flat-footed against that attack, and you then become observed. If you do anything else, you become observed just before you act unless the GM determines otherwise.Only basic Strike actions benefit from the flat-footed stipulation.
I'm beginning to think Hide is the action that is too restrictive, rather than Covered Relosd being poorly worded.
As before, I don't like rules where the GM has to adjudicate every possibility and situation as they have enough going on.
Yeah, I don't think the problem here is Covered Reload. The problems you're mentioning are due to the rules for Hiding. Nothing to due with Covered Reload.
The benefit of covered reload should really be that you can hide and reload as a single action. Someone else should be able to replicate the same thing, but it's going to cost them more actions to do so.
so that description is from the Way of Pistolero, not a specific feat right? To be honest, it doesn't bother me then that Raconteir's Reload doesn't stipulate anything about not needing a free hand to reload. Dual Weapon reload is a level 1 feat freely available.
The fact that this way mentions it's compatible with dual pistols to me doesn't mean that you should expect it for free. The solution is already easily available.
It is from the way of pistolero indeed.
As for the lvl 1 feat, we both know it's an easily available solution, but since it's a game concerning a limited pool of feats the character can choose among, knowing whether it's intended to work with either two one handed ranged weapons or not ( especially when the class itself assumes you can choose either ways ) feels legit.
And I want to underline I am not saying it's one way or the other ( but just that I feel doubts legit given the context ).
I dunno, the context is a line that says you might "cultivate the ambidexterity for twin weapons". Cultivate here means essentially "develop", since you're not doing anything with actual plants.
Sounds exactly like taking a feat to "cultivate the ambidexterity" to me. Pretty unambiguous.
But it's not a feat. You're simply select a Way from Among the possible Gunslinger options, and the bit about being ambidextrous says "you might cultivate". To me it doesn't create an expectation of not needing some investment to make dual weapons work.
Edit: Sorry I just realized you're agreeing with me. I misunderstood your post when I first read it, still early my time.
So yes exactly, I agree that "cultivating" ambidexterity would mean spending a feat in this context.