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So, new from SDCC.
Phase 4 ends with the new Black Panther movie. Good riddance.
Phase 5 apparently starts with the next Ant-Man movie. Looking at the list, there’s only four things that really interest me: Ant-Man, GotG Vol 3, Blade, and Daredevil. Maybe the Captain America movie, but that will largely depend on the overall plot and the villain.
Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania - Feb. 17, 2023
Secret Invasion (Disney+) - Spring 2023
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 - May 5, 2023
Echo (Disney+) - Summer 2023
Loki Season 2 (Disney+) - Summer 2023
The Marvels - July 28, 2023
Blade - Nov. 3, 2023
Ironheart (Disney+) - Fall 2023
Agatha: Coven of Chaos (Disney+) - Winter 2023/24
Daredevil: Born Again (Disney+) - Spring 2024
Captain America: New World Order - May 3, 2024
Thunderbolts - July 18, 2024
Then Phase 6 kicks off with Fantastic Four. They’ve also apparently announced this next big story as The Multiverse Saga. Again, I’m cautiously pessimistic. My enthusiasm for FF will largely depend on casting, whether they included Doom, and whether they finally get him right this time. The Avengers movies I’m truly iffy on. It’ll depend on who’s in the line-up, as I find some of the potential team members to be less than compelling.
Fantastic Four - Nov. 8, 2024
Avengers: The Kang Dynasty - May 2, 2025
Avengers: Secret Wars - May 7, 2025
I did notice a distinct lack of mention about Spider-Man and Doctor Strange, still two of the best characters they have left in the MCU. I find that disappointing.
Phase 4
She-Hulk: Attorney at Law - Season 1 (17 August 2022)
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (11 November 2022)
Phase 5
The Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special (December 2022)
Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania (17 February 2023)
Secret Invasion (Spring 2023)
Guardians of the Galaxy: Volume 3 (5 May 2023)
Echo - Season 1 (Summer 2023)
The Marvels (28 July 2023)
Loki - Season 2 (Summer 2023)
Blade (3 November 2023)
Ironheart - Season 1 (Autumn 2023)
Agatha: Coven of Chaos (Winter 2023)
Captain America: New World Order (3 May 2024)
Daredevil: Born Again - Season 1 (Spring 2024)
Thunderbolts (26 July 2024)
Phase 6
tbc (autumn 2024)
Fantastic Four (8 November 2024)
tbc (autumn 2024)
tbc (winter 2024)
tbc (winter 2024)
tbc (spring 2025)
Avengers: The Kang Dynasty (2 May 2025)
tbc (spring 2025)
tbc (summer 2025)
tbc (summer 2025)
Avengers: Secret Wars (7 November 2025)
So far confirmed(ish) but undated, so likely to fill up some of the above slots: Deadpool 3, Shang-Chi 2, Thor 5, Spider-Man 4
Unconfirmed but likely(ish) to happen: Hawkeye Season 2, Moon Knight Season 2, Ms. Marvel Season 2, Black Panther 3, Eternals 2, Black Knight project (which could be Blade, Eternals 2 or his own thing), Dr. Strange 3
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I'm aware that this question seems sort of troll-ish, and if you think so, I apologize, but...
Is anyone else kind of burnt out on MCU movies? I recognized that I was burnt out on them by the time Endgame came around, but I still wanted to see the end of that story arc. But the constant movies and tv shows, a good chunk of which are just seeding future movies and tv shows, and the apparent decline of quality in the writing... I just can't get excited about another 20+ releases over the next two years of more of the same after 14 years of MCU titles.
I'm just wondering if anyone else is ready to move on from MCU stuff like I am.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I'm surprised so many articles and reports ignored the tbc holes in the schedule - since Disney has confirmed dates for MCU movies....including a few in 2026 for Phase 7 films.
I'm pretty sure there's a Feb/Mar 2024 date without a film attached yet as part of phase 5 as well.
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I'm just wondering if anyone else is ready to move on from MCU stuff like I am.
Nah, you're not alone at all, I stopped watching MCU stuff after Iron Man 3 only to return to watch Dr. Strange and the GotG movies as I realized it was going to just grow endlessly given that its part of the Disney Infinite Money Glitch entertainment empire of spin-offs, sequels, toys, and merch.
I never engaged with the whole Thanos stuff despite how insanely huge and hyped it was because I saw the writing on the wall that Marvel was just going to keep chugging this stuff out to sell toys, clothes, and license the properties to anyone and everyone with a fat enough wallet so to me, it feels like there is no artistic integrity left in the Marvel stuff at all, it's just shill bait to get kids to buy junk. Blech!
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So, new from SDCC.
Phase 4 ends with the new Black Panther movie. Good riddance.
Phase 5 apparently starts with the next Ant-Man movie. Looking at the list, there’s only four things that really interest me: Ant-Man, GotG Vol 3, Blade, and Daredevil. Maybe the Captain America movie, but that will largely depend on the overall plot and the villain.
Too Much. Too Fast. :(
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I'm aware that this question seems sort of troll-ish, and if you think so, I apologize, but...
Is anyone else kind of burnt out on MCU movies? I recognized that I was burnt out on them by the time Endgame came around, but I still wanted to see the end of that story arc. But the constant movies and tv shows, a good chunk of which are just seeding future movies and tv shows, and the apparent decline of quality in the writing... I just can't get excited about another 20+ releases over the next two years of more of the same after 14 years of MCU titles.
I'm just wondering if anyone else is ready to move on from MCU stuff like I am.
Not at all. I’m actually quite excited about the next few years worth of MCU content.
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I'm surprised so many articles and reports ignored the tbc holes in the schedule - since Disney has confirmed dates for MCU movies....including a few in 2026 for Phase 7 films.
I'm pretty sure there's a Feb/Mar 2024 date without a film attached yet as part of phase 5 as well.
Yep, pretty sure those will get filled in next month at D23!
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I'm just wondering if anyone else is ready to move on from MCU stuff like I am.Nah, you're not alone at all, I stopped watching MCU stuff after Iron Man 3 only to return to watch Dr. Strange and the GotG movies as I realized it was going to just grow endlessly given that its part of the Disney Infinite Money Glitch entertainment empire of spin-offs, sequels, toys, and merch.
I never engaged with the whole Thanos stuff despite how insanely huge and hyped it was because I saw the writing on the wall that Marvel was just going to keep chugging this stuff out to sell toys, clothes, and license the properties to anyone and everyone with a fat enough wallet so to me, it feels like there is no artistic integrity left in the Marvel stuff at all, it's just shill bait to get kids to buy junk. Blech!
Wow … that’s quite a negative and pessimistic take …
I certainly respect your opinion, but it’s definitely one I don’t share!
I don't share it at all, especially given the trailers we got for BP 2 (YAY!!! Namor! and the feels!) and She-hulk.
Also, Fables comics suck.
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I'm aware that this question seems sort of troll-ish, and if you think so, I apologize, but...
Is anyone else kind of burnt out on MCU movies? I recognized that I was burnt out on them by the time Endgame came around, but I still wanted to see the end of that story arc. But the constant movies and tv shows, a good chunk of which are just seeding future movies and tv shows, and the apparent decline of quality in the writing... I just can't get excited about another 20+ releases over the next two years of more of the same after 14 years of MCU titles.
I'm just wondering if anyone else is ready to move on from MCU stuff like I am.
Yeah, you’re not completely alone. I certainly am a bit burned out thanks to Phase 4, which has been very hit and miss for me. That said, as a life-long comics fan, I’m not quite ready to completely give up, but I’m starting to avoid the more obvious crap (which I hear applies to the new Thor movie), and stuff definitely not aimed at me (like the Marvel show). And there’s far less upcoming stuff I’m interested in seeing.
What’s more telling for me is rewatch value. I still enjoy watching most Phase 1-3 MCU films (with a few exceptions, like the shit show that was Ironman 3, or Captain Marvel). With the Phase 4 movie and TV shows, I’ve rewatched approximately one (Spider-Man: No Way Home), and currently have no desire to ever watch the rest ever again. Also, this is the first Phase where I’ve actually skipped movies (Black Widow and Thor 4, so far), or wish that I had skipped them (Eternals).
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Not burnt out on DC yet, for some reason.
Despite the horrid mess that some of those DC movies have been, I’m also not completely burned out on them. The Batman was great (I’ve seen it four times now). The new Shazam and Black Adam movies look interesting (maybe not enough to see them in a theater, but I’ll definitely streaming watch them).
I dunno if I'll stream either, but one of those I will see in theaters. (Probably Black Adam since I'm a huge Doctor Fate fan.)
Also a man that thinks fables is the bomb has no soul and thus should not count his opinion. The end.
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Interesting. From everything I’ve heard, Gosling is a great actor. And he’s younger than the other odds on favorite (at least in some quarters), Norman Reedus, by about 12 years. Not that younger means much anymore.
Still, I think Reedus would be more willing to play the character long-term. Either way, though, I’m glad to see so much interest in one of my favorite super hero characters.
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Nick Cage cameo though? Maybe? C'monnnnn… you GOTTA give him one...Interesting. From everything I’ve heard, Gosling is a great actor. And he’s younger than the other odds on favorite (at least in some quarters), Norman Reedus, by about 12 years. Not that younger means much anymore.
Still, I think Reedus would be more willing to play the character long-term. Either way, though, I’m glad to see so much interest in one of my favorite super hero characters.
Maybe he could play Crash Simpson in a flashback?
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‘Avengers: The Kang Dynasty’ Lands ‘Shang-Chi’ Director Destin Daniel Cretton
I’m slightly more discouraged than not about this news. Shang-Chi wasn’t horrible, but I thought it could have been a lot better. That might not entirely be Cretton’s fault, though.
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One problem they keep having, especially with the first movies for a director, is the director coming on board to find the movie already storyboarded out for them. It prevents the director from having as much input as they'd like. For the sequels that's less of a problem as the director is right on board from the start of the process. Although it can also backfire: Ragnarok wasn't full 100% Taika Waititi as he came onboard during the writing and storyboarding process, but Love & Thunder is 150% Waititi and I think that actually hurt the movie.
The only director who avoided that fate in their first film for the MCU is Sam Raimi, who had enough creative respect and power to simply come in and say, "We're not doing that, we're doing this my way," resulting in the most visually distinctive Marvel movie to date (although perhaps a little familiar to anyone who's watched the Evil Dead movies and TV show).
Shang-Chi I think was a really solid movie with good direction up until the final act, when it devolved a little into Standard MCU CGI Slugfest. I think Cretton can maybe take ownership of that a bit more going into his next movie. I'd be more concerned about him having to squeeze out Shang-Chi 2 (which is confirmed and already in development) and Avengers 5 back-to-back, but the Russos did pump out Winter Soldier-Civil War-Infinity War at two-year intervals, and shot Infinity War and Endgame back to back, so it is possible (if chronically exhausting).
As for Marvel Franchise Fatigue, yeah, I think there's a danger of that. I do think not having any Marvel product at all in 2020 did create a bit more of an appetite for it, but the films that came out afterwards (the underwhelming Black Widow, the okay-but-underdeveloped Eternals and the good but not great Shang-Chi) didn't exactly set the world on fire.I really liked Dr. Strange 2 but it was a marmitey film overall, and Love & Thunder was far, far too comedic to really make its dramatic scenes work.
If I was Kevin Feige I'd seriously be considering retiring after Secret Wars (he'd have been working on the MCU project for around twenty years at that point) and letting a new team take over, maybe with a ~3 year break becoming coming back with any new TV show or movie. You have to create the appetite and demand for a franchise rather than just assume it will always be there, especially with little kids now who see the 14-year-old MCU as being old-hat and dated.
I'm with Joel. We have had changes in the comic editorial boards for some times. Just have Feige groom someone else. Also, less concerned with Cretton running Secret Wars and/or Kang Dynasty. But I do agree with Wert that they needed better script doctors for Love and Thunder. (Gorr was too pansy and that's a bad thing.)
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There’s wasn’t a Deadpool thread to put this in.
Could just be the two of them having fun, but I thought it could be cool if true.
I'm pretty sure it's true. Ryan Reynolds wouldn't lie about this...
Told ya...
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‘Avengers: Secret Wars’: Michael Waldron Tapped To Pen Upcoming Installment For Marvel Studios
I’m sure this will make some people happy. Personally, I’m disappointed, seeing it as repeating Phase 4 mistakes.
Considering Phase 4 is kind of par with Phase one...I'm okay with it.
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Was this the writer of Doctor Strange 2 who didn't actually watch any of Wandavision even though they had to tie in connections between the two (and was a big reason Wanda's character came off as a caricature)? Eh. I'm not sure I'd even watch Secret Wars anyway.
Referring back to some of the convo upthread... I don't have full on Marvel fatigue, but I definitely have mega uberplot fatigue. And actually, while I've read comics my whole life, I've always hated mega crossovers in the comics. They were clearly meant for a certain kind of ultrahardcore collector type--and clearly appealed to many--who was not me. I often (though not always) read about B and C listers and street level type stories. For me megacrossovers always mean the characters I liked died or got sidelined and the stories I enjoyed cancelled or completely disrupted. (I remember following one particular X-Men comic for awhile and from one month to the next the cast had changed completely with no internal explanation, but it had to do with a recent mega event). I'm starting to feel much the same way about the MCU. While there were rewarding elements to Infinity War and Endgame, I don't feel the buildup personally was worth it (note: I fully recognize this is an unpopular opinion, and I am not attacking you personally if you disagree with me; I am not attacking anyone, just stating where I am with this), and in fact I think often the buildup often interfered with storytelling and character development. For one of the more obvious examples, see Thor in the magic bath in Age of Ultron.
I like the shared universe, but for me personally, that doesn't have to come with the Next Big Threat that everyone has to join up and fight. I like seeing heroes join forces for certain stories, but it can be in a smaller way like Cap and Sam and Nat working together in CA:TWS. It doesn't have to be everyone there ever was a movie about (and yet someone will be disappointed because so-and-so didn't cameo).
And this crossroads between individual storytelling and shared universe and big story buildup seems a precarious ledge Marvel is perching on.
On one hand, they seem to be branching out to make different works that are clearly written for a wider variety of audiences. Young, old, male, female, fans of comedy and drama and capers and intrigue. I like this. I like it a lot. I don't need to catch them all. I don't need to see every single one. I like watching the ones that just appeal to me. I love superhero meets slice of life so I love Ms Marvel and She-Hulk. I also love street level supers so I loved Hawkeye. I also have fun with spy-stories in superhero worlds (which is a larger genre than you might think) and so I am really looking forward to Secret Invasion. But I'm not so into dudebro saves the universe, so I skipped Love and Thunder. (There are actually other personal reasons I chose not to see that film as well but they are irrelevant to this conversation.) I don't enjoy Grunty Angry Man Angrily Fighting stories so I skipped Punisher a while back. And given how very different feeling many of the new series and movies are I feel like in many ways there is a best of all worlds here... the shared connectivity to see common threads, but the ability to pick what you want to watch and leave the rest seems to be there....
But is it?
Because are there going to stories where if I skip one and watch another, I then won't know what's happening? The pressure to watch EVERYTHING has built since the MCU has grown and it is the secret to its success so far, because people will watch the next thing solely due to FOMO. But I do think that pressure is also where the fatigue is coming in for many viewers. They're making more and more and more stuff. Keeping up takes more and more time and work; keeping all the worldbuilding straight gets exhausting for anyone other than the most obsessive fan (and I say that as a reasonably obsessive fan). I was surprised that they actually tied as much of Wandavision into Dr Strange as they did (because that was definitely a unique story...) and equally surprised, not to mention disappointed, that the writers and director appeared to have no interest in Wandavision which in fact then, in my opinion, weakened the story considerably especially as it pertained to Wanda (and I know Wandavision wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but it was vastly better written than Doctor Strange in the MOM, and the writers could have learned a few lessons from watching it). If the showrunners can't be f~**ing bothered to keep up, why should we? Because it suggests that there are going to be tie ins... and they are going to be sloppy, and viewers are going to be caught between the rock of watching only what they want but then being confused by something down the line, and the hard place of expending a lot of energy to keep up with everything only to be disappointed in how it actually does build up and tie together.
Anyway, I'm going to err on the side on watching the bits I want to watch and leaving the rest alone. And I'll very likely NOT watch any of the Avengers films (reserving the right to change my mind if I decide to watch for a character I like, but I'll not pay attention to the plot). And I'll just have to be okay with it if there's a plot point I miss/don't understand. Because I'm just not going to waste the time and energy spending hours watching something I am not having fun with, and I know, from decades of experience, that mega crossovers are not fun for me.
In the end, these are supposed to be fun escape storytelling times. Whatever succeeds in providing fun escape storytelling is doing it right, and whatever makes it exhausting or sloppy isn't. We'll see what happens!
There was a point in here somewhere. If you find it, you get a no-prize!
DQ,
I think the point was, Thor 4 could have benefitted from less Taika Waititi input and maybe a tad more Jason Aaron. But eh...
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I did not read marvel comics besides Guardians of the Galaxy and Deadpool occasionally but I will say I've mostly lost my enthusiasm or drive to see any marvel movies besides the Spider-Man movies since the ending of EndGame.
I don't think I've lost mine. I just wonder where they are getting some of the script ideas...and why they can't do better translating decent villains.
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Because are there going to stories where if I skip one and watch another, I then won't know what's happening? The pressure to watch EVERYTHING has built since the MCU has grown and it is the secret to its success so far, because people will watch the next thing solely due to FOMO. But I do think that pressure is also where the fatigue is coming in for many viewers.
Speaking for myself, it doesn’t bother me that I might miss some key plot point that might come up later. Then again, I’m the kind of guy that can read the entire plot synopsis of a movie, then go watch it, and still enjoy it if it’s good enough.
For me, my declining interest in the MCU comes mostly from disappointment at what I perceive to be poorer quality. Much the same way that I don’t read as many comics as I might have 35 years ago. With one exception, there isn’t a single Phase 4 MCU film or series I have a desire to ever watch again. Which is a marked difference from phases 1-3.
All that said, I do think they’re putting out way too much content. Quantity over quality. They just want to keep the content flow going for people to consume.
See that's the interesting thing. I don't see a difference in quality. I'd say it's overall same as what I've seen in most of Marvel, and better than some. For example, overall across all the shows and movies I have seen, in my opinion, the writing, production values, and performances are overall better than in, say, Phase 2 in my opinion. Like, I think most of what's out there has been better made than Age of Ultron or even (and I know this will be controversial) Civil War.
I see more things I'm not personally interested in watching, but that isn't the same thing as poor quality.
Obviously what is "quality" is itself subjective, of course.
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See that's the interesting thing. I don't see a difference in quality. I'd say it's overall same as what I've seen in most of Marvel, and better than some. For example, overall across all the shows and movies I have seen, in my opinion, the writing, production values, and performances are overall better than in, say, Phase 2 in my opinion. Like, I think most of what's out there has been better made than Age of Ultron or even (and I know this will be controversial) Civil War.
I see more things I'm not personally interested in watching, but that isn't the same thing as poor quality.
Obviously what is "quality" is itself subjective, of course.
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We shall have to agree to disagree.
Except for your Civil War blasphemy! When the zombiepocalypse happens, we will not be able to save you for last.
I have to agree that the quality of the movies don't seem to be tied to the different phases. I do think that for myself, the Phase 1 and 2 movies have more re-watch value, but that's because the movies are more self-contained then the later movies, where it can feel like I'm watching a prequel to a movie that hasn't even been released yet.
And even then, I still like some of the later movies! But I'm burned out on all of them at the same time! Life is a paradox.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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For me, I've still continued to like everything MCU has put out (with the exception of the I am Groot! animated shorts, but they aren't really part of anything plot related), but I think the quality on the movies has dropped some, which makes most of the movies merely good instead of excellent. The TV shows however have the highest quality bar of anything MCU has put out. I'm definitely bummed about Armor Wars shifting to a movie because of that alone.
I'm semi-with Joel about them making Armor Wars a movie instead of a TV show...but at the same time I do agree that quality on TV shows has increased greatly.
That being said, I think we are still in the early stages to make sufficient judgment about the current/future trajectory of the MCU movies. We still have BP 2 (which has a great looking Namor) and then Phase 5.
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How much of fond memories of the earliest movies is nostalgia and youth remembering a more innocent time? Iron Man came out in 2008, IIRC. There are kids who watch the latest MCU products and weren't even born when this started. Or am I just being cynically old?
I agree with Joel, I think the TV shows have been well done. That's why I like comics after all.
Except for your Civil War blasphemy! When the zombiepocalypse happens, we will not be able to save you for last.
That's okay. I have always been very slow moving and always figured my end when the time comes would be heroically letting my compatriots flee and vainly holding off zombies with a baseball bat until I am inevitably and tragically swarmed.
And then after that I get to join the winning team! Yay! Braiiiiiinsssss...
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I have access to and skill with too many axes, hammers and other destructive tools as well as little trust or faith in humanity so I should do very well for myself during the zombie apocalypse.
Of course I am a nice person so I'll share the Twinkies.
DQ,
I promise if the zombie apocalypse comes, I will make sure to give you a clean death as I open up a portal to the Negative zone.
Also I plan on getting all the paladins and D&D clerics I can find.
honestly....I would almost welcome a Zombie Apocalypse these days. Makes life so much more simple.
Joel,
No we're not actually discussing Marvel Zombies the animated TV show. Just zombie apocalypses in general thanks to A-zombie.
I think it's to be expected given they had problems after the director for Blade left. That being said, I don't foresee this affecting the other movies other than maybe giving them more time to do things right.