I have a doubt.
If a caster uses Shapechange spell what happens to temporary hit points when it recharge the shape?
For example, if a caster uses a Shapechange spell to turn into a Monstrosity Form take some hits but in next turn use 1-action to change he/she form to another creature the temporary hit points resets?
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Per strict RAW, you're supposed to get them back.
Considering how Shapechange is bad, I'd certainly play it per RAW so there would be a reason to take it.
It doesn't even fully cast the spell that it is duplicating. It lets you get the form transformation effects of a different Polymorph spell that you could use. Then it also has a new ability to change between forms that you could use. The ability to change to a different shape doesn't say anything about adding more Temp HP or fully recasting the replicated spell, so I would say that you do not get any more Temp HP when you change between different forms - but I would give them when you first cast the spell according to the Temp HP listed in the first form that you choose.
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It says you can You transform yourself into any form and the battle form statistics include temp hp: I can't see an argument for not getting them anymore than ignoring it's move rates or AC. As such, I'd go with a new set of temp hp as temp hp as linked to your form and not the shapechange itself.
It says you can You transform yourself into any form and the battle form statistics include temp hp: I can't see an argument for not getting them anymore than ignoring it's move rates or AC. As such, I'd go with a new set of temp hp as temp hp as linked to your form and not the shapechange itself.
Hmm... That's a good point.
It just seems really powerful to be able to regain the temp HP once per round for 1 action. Even for a 9th level spell. Considering that an 8th level specific battle form spell wouldn't do that.
If the choice is between heightening Dragon Form to 9th level or using Shapechange, what are the benefits of each?
I would think that using Shapechange and picking Dragon Form would still have the same stats as a 9th level Dragon Form, yes? Looking at it again, 9th level Dragon Form may even have the same stats as 8th level Dragon Form. I don't see anything that scales based on spell level other than what is listed in the heightening entry. So that may be one benefit of using Dragon Form directly - lower spell level used.
The benefit of Shapechange is utility and flexibility. If you are only using the Polymorph spells for combat purposes, yeah use the best one you have and use it directly. But you can also use them to for their movement types, physical skills, and other such things both in combat and out of combat. Shapechange looks like it would have a lot more flexibility and options for that. While still being just as good for combat purposes. Being able to renew 15 temp HP for 1 action just by changing which color of dragon you are... What's the balance tradeoff for that?
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The temp h.p. bump isn't that much, given its action cost plus the drawback of switching out of your best form (at least half the time that is). It's also comparable to what Renewed Vigor provides, which is small compared to incoming damage.
So yeah, seems legit to me since you're settling for a lower level battle form to begin with, and those are going to be fairly vulnerable re: AC however versatile they might be.
Shapechange is roughly useless. If you look at Battle Forms, you'll realize that there are very few level 8 Battle Form spells. And because you can only choose from your tradition, chances are high that you have only 1 or 2 choices.
Also, switching between Battle Forms is useless. In most combat, you choose the Battle Form you need and stick to it till the end. Chances for a combat to ask for very different abilities is close to zero.
So, it's better to just take a level 9 Battle Form, choose the form that helps for the combat and stick to it.
At least, with this side effect, Shapechange can be used to... tank? With a lower level Battle Form, it's not incredible but it's not that bad. At least, the spell has a use, not a very interesting one, but I can see a Spell Blending Wizard take it sometimes.
This gives me another doubt.
Change form to a different creature/dragon can reset Breath reload time?
This gives me another doubt.
Change form to a different creature/dragon can reset Breath reload time?
"Once activated, your breath weapon can't be used again for 1d4 rounds."
If you grab another breath weapon by changing shape, it's still "your breath weapon", so no. It deactivate anything that is called Breath Weapon.| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
This gives me another doubt.
Change form to a different creature/dragon can reset Breath reload time?
"Once activated, your breath weapon can't be used again for 1d4 rounds."
If you grab another breath weapon by changing shape, it's still "your breath weapon", so no. It deactivate anything that is called Breath Weapon.
I'm not sure I'd agree with that: would a Kobold that used it's racial feats to get a breath weapon have it also tied to every other breath weapon? I think every form would have it's own timer. It's not like it's an awesome exploit as the damage is around a 6th level fireball but you're using 3 actions to do it at a more limited range and have to wait a round before you can start...
This time I think that SuperBidi is right because the name used in restriction matches with the name os action. But other breaths (Barbarian, Sorcerer, Human, Kobolds) have different names.
The temp h.p. bump isn't that much, given its action cost plus the drawback of switching out of your best form (at least half the time that is). It's also comparable to what Renewed Vigor provides, which is small compared to incoming damage.
So yeah, seems legit to me since you're settling for a lower level battle form to begin with, and those are going to be fairly vulnerable re: AC however versatile they might be.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this.
Some examples using a primal tradition Sorcerer (because a Druid would automatically know all these spells at all the levels):
If the sorcerer knows Dragon Form at level 8 and Shapechange, couldn't they just switch between colors of dragon?
If the sorcerer only knows 6th level Aerial Form and Shapechange, they could still switch between Bat, Bird, Pterosaur, and Wasp - which are fairly equivalent between each other.
And in either case 6th level Aerial Form and 8th level Dragon Form both have an AC of 21 + character level (not spell level).
I'm not sure I'd agree with that: would a Kobold that used it's racial feats to get a breath weapon have it also tied to every other breath weapon? I think every form would have it's own timer. It's not like it's an awesome exploit as the damage is around a 6th level fireball but you're using 3 actions to do it at a more limited range and have to wait a round before you can start...This gives me another doubt.
Change form to a different creature/dragon can reset Breath reload time?
"Once activated, your breath weapon can't be used again for 1d4 rounds."
If you grab another breath weapon by changing shape, it's still "your breath weapon", so no. It deactivate anything that is called Breath Weapon.
Neither Kobold nor Barbarian abilities are called Breath Weapon or anything like that. The Barbarian has the word Breath in the name of the ability, but weapon is nowhere to be seen. The Kobold one is neither a breath nor a weapon.
Also, I'm speaking about RAW, not about RAI. Per RAW, it says you can't use your breath weapon (without capital B and W) so it means that anything that can be considered a breath weapon is forbidden. I don't think it's really important anyway as I don't expect this case to ever happen.
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I'm not sure I'd agree with that: would a Kobold that used it's racial feats to get a breath weapon have it also tied to every other breath weapon? I think every form would have it's own timer. It's not like it's an awesome exploit as the damage is around a 6th level fireball but you're using 3 actions to do it at a more limited range and have to wait a round before you can start...This gives me another doubt.
Change form to a different creature/dragon can reset Breath reload time?
"Once activated, your breath weapon can't be used again for 1d4 rounds."
If you grab another breath weapon by changing shape, it's still "your breath weapon", so no. It deactivate anything that is called Breath Weapon.Neither Kobold nor Barbarian abilities are called Breath Weapon or anything like that. The Barbarian has the word Breath in the name of the ability, but weapon is nowhere to be seen. The Kobold one is neither a breath nor a weapon.
Also, I'm speaking about RAW, not about RAI. Per RAW, it says you can't use your breath weapon (without capital B and W) so it means that anything that can be considered a breath weapon is forbidden. I don't think it's really important anyway as I don't expect this case to ever happen.
By RAW I disagree. If it states "your breath weapon", not plural, not "any breath weapon", nor "a breath weapon" then this means it refers to one specific breath weapon, the one given in context. That's even before addressing how PF2 is written in conversational English which leads to the same conclusion.
I also find it odd to say an ability called Dragon's Rage Breath is not a breath weapon when the feat explicitly says "You breathe deeply and exhale powerful energy..." which is well, a breath weapon.
That said, I think I'd quash the cheese of trying to swap to a different dragon form to refresh one's breath weapon. That singular source of several breath weapon variants could be lumped IMO.
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Flip-flopping between 8th-level breath weapons as a 9th-level spell seems fine by me at that point in the game. It even costs an action each time, so 3 actions to get off a single blast each time.
Could be an exciting 1 minute of exploration time with 10 blasts, though using 3 actions a round outside of an encounter is generally not allowed. Even at 5 blasts that would be quite the damage over a minute.
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Flip-flopping between 8th-level breath weapons as a 9th-level spell seems fine by me at that point in the game. It even costs an action each time, so 3 actions to get off a single blast each time.
Could be an exciting 1 minute of exploration time with 10 blasts, though using 3 actions a round outside of an encounter is generally not allowed. Even at 5 blasts that would be quite the damage over a minute.
This was my thought as the 3 action cost means that any kind of movement means you don't get a blast and battles at that level can be quite mobile and breath weapons can be tricky to use without moving as they are lines/cones. A few extra 6th level fireball-level attacks that must start in an adjacent square seems fine balance wise IMO. If someone can manage to turret in place and get off multiple breaths from that position instead of using an at level spell then more power to them IMO.