Why haven't the gods wiped Rahadoum off the face of Golarion?

[Yqatuba]

They outright hate all the gods, and, even considering the non-interference rules the gods have, I'd think they'd ALL be against a country that bans religion. Even if the good gods are too nice to do anything, I'm pretty sure the neutral and evil gods would wreck the place.

[Mudfoot]

Gods aren't allowed to intervene directly so they'd have to send a mortal crusade to fix it. If one (group of) gods were to send a crusade that way, it might be seen by the opposition as a takeover bid and they'd want to respond. And that's an unnecessary war nobody needs, as there are enough other problems going on.

So long as Rahadoum doesn't try spreading its message too widely, they'll (by and large) be left to their own devices. I expect most religions will consider this sort of radical experiment to be obviously self-limiting, as clerics are too useful.

[PossibleCabbage]

Why do they care? Deities in Pathfinder don't gain power from worship or anything, their followers are just "the people they can influence."

Like there's no difference between "Nobody in Rahadoum worships anybody" and "nobody in Rahadoum worships Torag" as far as Torag is concerned.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Well, I've always speculated part of it's like the gods going "oh, your land's desertification is accelerating? Well, that's a shame...we'd help if you wanted...oh you don't? Too bad, then! Good luuuuuuuck!"

[Scarablob]

Well, the fact that it ban al gods don't mean that all gods are equaly against them, or against them at all. Evil gods are used to having their worship illegalised and their cult working in clandestinity, so it's not much different for them, and they never ally to take down the other countries that ban them (especially since some of them really can't stand each other, like lamashtu and asmodeus). Most good god want to help mortals, but allow them to self-determine, they mostly want to advise them and protect them from evil gods/outwordly presence, so once again, as long as something like a worldwound don't open in the middle of rahadoum, it'll be left alone. Neutral gods all have different views on their worship, some (like abadar) might be miffed to be banned, while other simply won't care.

So even if all the gods who do care about being banned wanted to form a cohalition to take down rahadoum, it will be a minority, the cohalition will instantly fall because they can't work with each other, and they would make the good gods form their own cohalition in defense of rahadoum (as they value mortal lives more than their worship).

In truth, rahadoum is a bigger problem for the gods followers than it is for the gods themselves. a cleric of sarenrae that live nearby may lament all the people of rahadoum the dawnflower could help but that are denied that help, but the goddess herself will see countless other mortal in far more dire situation, and who unlike the people of rahadoum, haven't deliberately chosen to shield themselves from her help. Unless the country or the laws of man start expanding greatly, what happen in rahadoum shoudln't really be that much of a concern for the gods.

[Sibelius Eos Owm]

I have to echo the sentiment of why should they go to the effort? Asking why don't demon lords and evil gods wipe Rahadoum off the map is no different than for any other country. Evil gods currently rule 2 countries in the Inner Sea and evil gods/fiends are assaulting at least two others, having already destroyed one thoroughly (though the Worldwound indeed has closed).

Even if it were that easy to just wipe Rahadoum off the map, what is to be gained by acting so directly against something which is such a non-threat to them. Rahadoum is the way it is because the clergy of three gods fought over it already. Whether that happens again in the immediate future is another question but still meaningless on the scale of whether a god will reach down and smite it and invite repercussion.

[keftiu]

The last time Sarenrae wiped a nation off the face of Golarion, it opened up the Pit of Gormuz; I can imagine nobody wanting to chance another crack in Rovagug’s prison.

Also… it’s one country, on one planet. Why should the gods care? In the same way that Pharasma doesn’t smite every single necromancer wandering around, none of the gods are likely to feel much urgency about nailing Rahadoum.

[Kasoh]

Rahadoum is largely isolationist. To my recollection, they do not execute believers of faith in their borders, just exile them.

Since Golarion deities have no claim to primacy over other religions there isn't any real cause for the religious organizations of the world to declare a crusade against the Rahadoumi people. You might find cults of Milani there though to actually oppose the government.

Cheliax has a vested interest in occupying both sides of the Arch of Aroden, but that's about it. Now, I could imagine Cheliax having a lot of fun taking Iomedaen artifacts and tossing them into the Rahadoumi desert if what happened to the Godclaw during Hell's Vegeance is any indicator.

Also, there just isn't anything worth taking. A crusade for religious freedom of the Rahadoumi people is one thing, but someone's got to pay for it and there isn't much to loot and the land isn't that productive recently.

[David knott 242]

The Rahadoumi believe that the gods have agendas that are inimical to mortals. A crusade by the gods against Rahadoum would prove their point.
The natural consequences of not having divine magic available to them are an easier and more obvious way to show them the error of their ways.

[Evan Tarlton]

keftiu wrote:

The last time Sarenrae wiped a nation off the face of Golarion, it opened up the Pit of Gormuz; I can imagine nobody wanting to chance another crack in Rovagug’s prison.

Also… it’s one country, on one planet. Why should the gods care? In the same way that Pharasma doesn’t smite every single necromancer wandering around, none of the gods are likely to feel much urgency about nailing Rahadoum.

Also, Sarenrae's followers were one of the main three factions in the war that led to Rahadoum's current anti-theism, so that's one more reason why she'd want to back off.

[James Jacobs]

We don't use the gods to make big world changes like that during the current era because that removes agency from the PCs. It also sets up an "arms race" situation where deity A does something, then deity B retaliates, and then they go back and forth until nothing's left. The deity's faith is what does its bidding instead.

Instances where deities destroyed things like that, be it Sarenrae wiping out a bunch of Rovagug cultists, or Rovagug crushing a bunch of planets, etc., are story elements we generally keep to the ancient past as part of the setting's mythology, where player agency is not at risk.

Planar Adventures, for 1st edition, goes into deeper detail about this topic.

As for why a bunch of faith-based soldiers haven't stormed in to try to wipe out Rahadoum? Because we haven't told that story yet. That's the sort of thing a non-good faith would do, in any event, even though Rahadoum isn't particularly friendly with how they do their thing. My personal bet on the faith that tries it first is that of Achaekek.

[keftiu]

If I were to see any antagonist in Rahadoum, my first vote would be the algollthus, but Achaekek is a comfortable runner-up.

[Scarablob]

keftiu wrote:

If I were to see any antagonist in Rahadoum, my first vote would be the algollthus, but Achaekek is a comfortable runner-up.

If I'm remembering it correctly, Achaekek don't actually seems to mind about rahadoum (while on the other hand, the red mantises seems quite a bit miffed at being kicked out of their home country). So once again, it appear to be a bigger problem for the mortal follower of the god than it is for the god himself.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

That's a general thing with a lot of gods, honestly, but with Achaekek more than most: He doesn't really give commands, and if you've earned his attention, it's probably because he's coming for you!

The Red Mantis' worship of him is more emulation than service. And they WOULD have reason to be mad at Rahadoum. Not only were they cast out of there, a personal slight, but their whole shtick is emulating Achaekek's role as the gods' headsman, with mortal rulers standing in for the gods to them (which is why they refuse to assassinate sitting monarchs, just as Achaekek does not attack other gods). So Rahadoum refusing to bow before any god is a direct challenge to the mandate they believe themselves to have. Nations like Andoran and Galt rejecting monarchs is insulting enough, but to leapfrog the metaphor entirely and reject the very gods?! The Red Mantis would find that unforgivable.

[Kevin Mack]

Also there is some use to having a place that is essentially neutral ground for deities and there none mortal servents to meet and do other under the radar things.

[W E Ray]

In my brain, Achaekek actually makes the most sense, considering both that the Red Mantis originally come from Rahadoum and that Rahadoum, Ilizmagorti, and the Vernai haven't had a whole heap of development according to their popularity and potential for great design.

I think, if the design choice is to eliminate a setting-concept from the canonical campaign line (like Paizo has done with Taldor, NW Cheliax, Varisia and The Worldwound), making an area nothing at all like its original setting-concept, then Rahadoum would make a good choice. Of course, like Jacobs said, it seems like it would lean more to an Evil-PCs adventure (can't see it as an AP).

I'd be against it. For my own personal preference, The Worldwound should be a place where there's a portal to demons and a crusade against them -- not a closed-off 'used-to-be' place where one once fought demons. Taldor should still be a decaying, corrupted-by-nepotism nation of worthless bureaucrats, not a new shining country on the mend. (At least they only ruined, er 'developed,' one corner of Cheliax.)

And I like Rahadoum as a place where religion is illegal. It makes for some fun gaming possibilities. PCs burning that out of the setting is like PCs closing the Worldwound or fixing Taldor -- forevermore after it's no longer 'The Worldwound,' no longer 'Taldor.'

That being said -- Rahadoum with The Red Mantis could make perfect sense -- if a 'religion-is-illegal' area of the canonical setting feels kind of lame or marginally unplayable, while a Red-Mantis-Governed area far closer to the goings-on in The Inner Sea could be a great addition to the setting. .... Of course, if one is perfectly happy to make Mediogalti a greater presence in one's game then maybe one doesn't need an adventure where PCs-for-Achaekek-&-The-Vernai go take out/conquer godless Rahadoum.

Maybe the best answer is an adventure where godless PCs DEFEND Rahadoum from The Red Mantis and Achaekek's worshippers!