White haired Witch and touch spells?


Rules Questions


Can a White haired Witch use her hair to deliver touch spells or is it just for grabs.

Liberty's Edge

Quote:

White Hair (Su): At 1st level, a white-haired witch gains the ability to use her hair as a weapon. This functions as a primary natural attack with a reach of 5 feet. The hair deals 1d4 points of damage (1d3 for a Small witch) plus the witch’s Intelligence modifier. In addition, whenever the hair strikes a foe, the witch can attempt to grapple that foe with her hair as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity, using her Intelligence modifier in place of her Strength modifier when making the combat maneuver check. When a white-haired witch grapples a foe in this way, she does not gain the grappled condition.

At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, a whitehaired witch’s hair adds 5 feet to its reach, to a maximum of 30 feet at 20th level.

The hair cannot be sundered or attacked as a separate creature. In addition, a white-haired witch further improves her ability to control her hair as she progresses in level, gaining the following abilities.

They work as a natural weapon, the grab ability works after you hit, so you can use them to deliver touch spells. If you deliver the touch spell as a touch attack and not as a normal melee attack you don't get to use the grab ability, as the grab is part of the normal attack.


Diego Rossi correct me if I'm wrong, but as a natural weapon you could also cast a touch spell as a standard and forgo the free touch attack, holding the charge, then next round deliver the spell as part of the hair's standard action attack. While this isn't ideal for a 1/2 BAB witch PC, if you hit on round 2 your PC would be delivering 1d4 (1d3 for Small) plus Int bonus damage, the effect of the Touch spell and using Grab to start a Grapple. DR, do I have that all right?

Liberty's Edge

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
Diego Rossi correct me if I'm wrong, but as a natural weapon you could also cast a touch spell as a standard and forgo the free touch attack, holding the charge, then next round deliver the spell as part of the hair's standard action attack. While this isn't ideal for a 1/2 BAB witch PC, if you hit on round 2 your PC would be delivering 1d4 (1d3 for Small) plus Int bonus damage, the effect of the Touch spell and using Grab to start a Grapple. DR, do I have that all right?
Diego Rossi wrote:
If you deliver the touch spell as a touch attack and not as a normal melee attack you don't get to use the grab ability, as the grab is part of the normal attack.

Corollary: if you deliver the spell as a standard attack (not touch) you get the grab part of the attack. I thought it was clearly implicit in that phrase.

The White Wich can deliver the spell using the hairs as a touch attack in the same round in which it is cast, or, if she holds the charge, either as a touch attack or a standard attack in the following rounds.


If you're holding a charge, the next person or thing you touch (even accidentally) will discharge the touch spell.

Cuthel wrote:
Can a White haired Witch use her hair to deliver touch spells or is it just for grabs.

Yes you can use your hair to deliver touch spells.


Ryze Kuja wrote:
If you're holding a charge, the next person or thing you touch (even accidentally) will discharge the touch spell.

Correct.

Quote:
Yes you can use your hair to deliver touch spells.

Correct.

You only need to make contact with them to deliver the spell, and you don't even need to hit their touch AC. Initiating (successfully) a grapple with you hair is enough to discharge the spell. Flank someone while holding the charge, initiate the grapple (you have range to stay out of AoO provoking territory or get the improved grapple feat), deliver the spell, constrict, etc, etc.

I have a white-haired witch that I am running in Giantslayer that is a MONSTER when it comes to locking ... well, anything... down with a grapple check. I am quite able to grapple someone, maintain that grapple (greater grapple) and discharge a fairly potent touch spell on them all in the same turn. Get a Rod of Quicken Spell, Lesser. Your hair has reach and you aren't considered grappled when using it.


I don't believe you need to wait till the next round to deliver the touch spell through a standard attack. You can make the standard attack (with punch/natural attack damage) as your "free attack" from casting the spell. The way I understood the magus ability spellstrike is that it simply lets you deliver through weapons now as well, not just your actual body.

Liberty's Edge

AwesomenessDog wrote:
I don't believe you need to wait till the next round to deliver the touch spell through a standard attack. You can make the standard attack (with punch/natural attack damage) as your "free attack" from casting the spell. The way I understood the magus ability spellstrike is that it simply lets you deliver through weapons now as well, not just your actual body.

No, you can't use the free touch attack to make a standard attack, unless you have the spellstrike ability (or you are using a spell that gives you a free armed, unarmed, or natural attack).

CRB wrote:

Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The act of casting a spell, however, does provoke an attack of opportunity.
Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack as long as the spell deals damage. Your opponent’s AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally.
Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the
attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

Making an unarmed or natural attack is part of "Holding the Charge", not of "casting the spell".

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