| Mutty06 |
I’m trying to create a magic item that grants fast healing and I’m somewhat uncertain about balance. After looking at current spells, feats and equipment that grant fast healing I have two rough ideas.
1) permanent fast healing equal to half item level
2) once a day fast healing equal to item level
My party has access to lay on hands and a master in medicine with multiple medicine skill feats and an alchemist with healing elixirs. 10 or 20 minutes after every fight they’re back to full so I personally am unconcerned with the out of combat consequences of permanent fast healing. I’m more concerned with having it for every encounter vs one encounter a day.
| HumbleGamer |
Imo, it might be broken.
Something similar you can look at ( in terms of requirements, length, power, actions, resources, trade off ):
- Witch's Life Boost
- Battle oracle Moderate and Greater Curse
- EC's First Resonance
- Regeneration spell
- Soulforger Armament ( Healing )
- Belt of Regeneration
Permament Fast Healing "may not be" a big issue on the right character ( for example a spellcaster ) while it would be broken on a melee character ( Imagine damage mitigation from Shield Block, High AC, Fast Healing, DR of some king and eventually temp HP ).
| Castilliano |
It's a fairly high level feat (9th; Vivacious Conduit) for a Gnome to restore Con x 1/2 level over the span of 10 minutes, which would be a metric for out-of-combat healing.
For an item to heal enough to make a difference in combat, that's really strong. Compare to 8th level Barbarian feat Renewed Vigor; one action, must be in Rage, Con + 1/2 level, but only temporary hit points. So an item is effectively opening up that feat to every class, giving them that feat, making it real hit points, and for zero actions (so along the lines of being Quickened permanently, yet in a way that stacks w/ other Quickened abilities which are quite temporary or 20th level feats).
So yeah, that's quite a difficult item to balance, or even make worth buying once balanced if the party has so many alternate sources.
| Mutty06 |
The life boost focus spell is actually what got me thinking that permanent fast healing might be acceptable. A focus point is easy enough to regain making life boost available for every encounter. And the duration is is long enough to last a full combat 90% of the time. So I didn’t see permanent fast healing as a big leap.
What about a reaction the trigger being your turn begins and the effect is you gain hp equal to the item level?
More of a pseudo fast healing.
| Eoran |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The life boost focus spell is actually what got me thinking that permanent fast healing might be acceptable. A focus point is easy enough to regain making life boost available for every encounter. And the duration is is long enough to last a full combat 90% of the time. So I didn’t see permanent fast healing as a big leap.
Life Boost does come with the opportunity cost of casting other focus spells with that focus point though. And for Witch specifically it also comes with the drawback of not being able to cast a different Hex that round too. But that one is generally less of a problem. Running out of focus points during the combat is the bigger limit.
I could get Life Boost running on all four members of a 4-stack party, but it would cost me all of my focus points, including the one that Farien, my familiar, would have to recharge mid-battle. And it would take me 4 rounds to get running.
With equipment providing that instead, there is no burden on other uses of focus points, and everyone in the party could get that piece of equipment for themselves.
It sounds like what you are looking for is some sort of permanent healing item. Currently we have consumable healing items in the form of Healing Potions and Elixirs of Life. There is also the Healer's Gloves.
If I were to try and put Life Boost into a permanent item, I would probably give it a 1-minute interact activation (to prevent it being used in combat) with a 1-hour cooldown afterwards that provides an immediate amount of healing based on item level and approximately equivalent to what Life Boost would give. Then an additional 1/day 1-action interact activation to use in combat to give the same effect as Life Boost. Higher level items could have more daily uses of the in-combat activation, but would have a 10 minute cooldown so that it can't be used multiple times in the same combat.
This is still a boost in power (and definitely a homebrewed item) because you are only spending gold for access to the benefits of the Life Boost spell instead of having to spend class feats getting Life Boost, Lay on Hands, Hymn of Healing, or spell slot healing spells.
But I also don't think that this amount of healing outperforms anyone who actually has Life Boost or even Medicine skill, Battle Medicine, and Continuous Recovery.
| HumbleGamer |
What about a reaction the trigger being your turn begins and the effect is you gain hp equal to the item level?
That would be more or less equal to use the shield block reaction, apart from some differences
1) You are not requiring to expend an action for the raise shield.
2) You are free to get a two hand weapon as weel as a one hand + free hand. Eventually, you could just go with an utility shield for the +2 AC and an extra perk, or even a sturdy shield + bastion dedication ( resulting in an extra reaction to perform the shield block ).
3) Not hardness related ( It can be used intefinitely, while a shield lasts 3/4 non critical hits ). Back to point 2, being able to have fast healing and shield block ( rather than 2x shield block ) would result into a monstrous tankiness.
4) No tradeoff in terms of feats/skills/focuspool ( as Eoran already mentioned ), meaning it would be powercreep only gold related.
Here's another item you could look at
- Rare ( not available to anybody )
- Contract ( the character is required to make a contract with a devil or a fiendish creature )
- Permanent effect with a drawback ( You regain triple the normal number of Hit Points when resting (meaning you regain triple your Constitution modifier multiplied by your level). The healing you gain from long-term rest is similarly tripled. Once per day, from any distance, Abrogail Thrune II can recite a voidability clause in your Thrune contract as a 1-minute activity to prevent you from regaining Hit Points from resting for 1 day )
- Strong special effect "on use" and "once per day", which let the character regain 25 hp per 6 rounds "unless he/she took good damage since the start of his/her previous turn".
- lvl 16 item
I see no real possibility to implement a permanent fast healing.
| nick1wasd |
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
You can also use the "Pearly White Spindle" aeon stone as a metric: "When you invest this aeon stone, it slowly starts healing your wounds, restoring 1 HP every minute." On a 3rd level item seems like a good basis for scaling, you could ramp it up to 1 HP per round (or to put another way, fast healing 1) at say, level ~7, 2 HP per round at level ~13, and finally 3 HP per round at level ~17. That's just my idea without really thinking about it too hard for too long, but that is another (PFS legal I might add) item to use as a template.
| HumbleGamer |
You can also use the "Pearly White Spindle" aeon stone as a metric: "When you invest this aeon stone, it slowly starts healing your wounds, restoring 1 HP every minute." On a 3rd level item seems like a good basis for scaling, you could ramp it up to 1 HP per round (or to put another way, fast healing 1) at say, level ~7, 2 HP per round at level ~13, and finally 3 HP per round at level ~17. That's just my idea without really thinking about it too hard for too long, but that is another (PFS legal I might add) item to use as a template.
I think that's a pretty solid expample how an item built around a fast healing should be conceived.
It gives every 5 rounds ( average combat encounter length ) roughtly 3/5 of the hardness of a sturdy shield of the same level.
lvl 7 version = 5hp vs 10 Hardness ( lvl 7 sturdy shield )
lvl 13 version = 10hp vs 15 hardness ( lvl 13 sturdy shield )
lvl 17 version = 15 hp vs 17 hardness ( lvl 16 sturdy shield )
I'd probably make the last version a lvl 19 item, in order to compare it with the lvl 19 sturdy shield version
lvl 19 version = 15 hp vs 20 hardness ( lvl 19 sturdy shield )
So the progression would be 1/2 hardness > 2/3 hardness > 3/4 hardness.
| Mutty06 |
Modeling the fast healing progression on shield hardness is a great idea!
Item 4
Reaction: Trollblood something something something
Trigger: Your turn begins and you have not taken acid or fire damage since your last turn.
You regain 5 hit points
Item 7
You regain 6 hit points
Item 10
You regain 8 hit points
Item 13
You regain 9 hit points
Item 16
You regain 10 hit points
Item 19
You regain 12 hit points
That is 60% of hardness of each sturdy shield
| HumbleGamer |
I like the flavor purpose, but not convinced by the given healings.
Cons
- a player will have to decide whether to use it or not ( it uses the player's reaction).
- it deactivates under specific circumstances.
- less sustain than a sturdy shield.
- it triggers at the beginning of the character's round ( while a shield block might cover up for a fatal blow).
- costy ( a character will have to renounce to something else to get it), especially if used as an addition to a sturdy shield.
Pro
- it can stack with quick shield block or quick block, resulting into a way much higher sustain for the character the more the fight goes on.
For example, a lvl 10 sturdy shield has 104/52 and 13 hardness.
Let's assume 23 dmg per attack
Character with shield
R1) shield block + shield block
R2) shield block + shield block
R3) shield block + *BT reached*
R4)
R5)
R6)
R7)
Character with shield + other item
R1) shield block + fast healing
R2) shield block + fast healing
R3) shield block + fast healing
R4) shield block + fast healing
R5) shield block + fast healing
R6) fast healing
R7) fast healing
Unless the fights are going to last 4 rounds or less, seems the item would probably result too good.
But maybe it's just me that underestimates the value of a reaction.
Giving it a clause "if you used the reaction on your last turn you won't be able to perform shield blocks", or something similar to prevent them from stacking, maybe...
| Mutty06 |
Additional Pros
- can be used after taking damage from a source that doesn’t trigger shield block
- has no upper limit like the break threshold
- can be paired with a two handed weapon
- no shield hp pool to track
Additional Con
- uses the reaction immediately after regaining it meaning the player has no reaction for an entire round taking a layer of depth out of combat and a removes a reason for the player to pay attention (waiting for reaction triggers) when it’s not their turn.
As to your point of a shield block preventing a fatal blow I would counter that if you had used the troll regen thing at the top on your turn you’d have the hp to withstand the blow.
The biggest reason I like using the reaction is the player must be conscious meaning it can’t be used to self pick up players while dying
| nick1wasd |
What if this was an armor rune. Does the fact that it takes up one of a limited number of armor rune slots make it more balanced?
I think an armor rune that doesn't eat your reaction, or eats the reaction to give a more than 1 round duration effect sounds pretty reasonable. That would move the power budget to a more contested area, and thus allow a little more power without making it overwhelming.
| HumbleGamer |
Given the current existing runes, it won't be a big deal ( they all are worthless more or less, apart from stuff like fortification, which kicks in by the time you get a second armor rune, so no big deal here too).
If armor runes were even just slightly better ( or close to the weapon runes), I think I could consider them.
Currently, none of my players ( over 2 campaigns) took an armor rune, resulting in no "socket" issue.
I'd work towards the item this way
"Try to make it not mandatory for a shield user".
The moment the character considers alternatives, the item can be considered balanced enough.
Currently, if I were a shield user, I'd always go for it.