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Hey Golarion GMs and Paizo experts!
I've got an NPC group, some who are starting as clerics and inquisitors of Desna, some who are coming to this as just plain old people.
This group has been patrolling roads. Cleaning roads. Keeping back the encroachment of brush and fallen logs. Repairing roads that weather or tree roots or animals disrupt. They've made it possible for a road through a dangerous stretch of wilderness to stay active, and compete with river based merchants.
And now the story is they need to collect funding for this work.
Caring for themselves as an organization, plus the tools and materials to build and maintain trade routes takes gold!
So the group is now collecting tolls from the trade that gets to bypass barge fees.
I want to play with the line between 'we're doing the good work of Desna helping travelers and keeping them safe from the monsters of the wilderness' and 'we're shaking down merchant wagons for protection money when they're far away from town and no longer have a choice.'
Where would you draw the line of what Desna is happy with? Generally okay with? Maybe sending dreams to change the direction of your life? Is someone going to make themselves an ex-cleric by collecting tolls? By having a colleague they are affiliated with kill a traveler in collecting a toll?
There is the distinction between laymen (people just doing this as a job) and those who are using divine powers in the work running the roads of this trade route. Toll roads by regular people probably doesn't merit Desna's attention. The clerics though... I don't see anything that specifically says Desna is against toll roads, but I do see she values freedom. I'd love outside opinions.
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If the tolls are modest and actually spent on upkeep, rather than being collected to make a profit, then Desna would probably not have an issue with it. Maintenance of shrines that double as rest stops could also be a part of the organization's duties; the tolls could be supplemented by donations (alms) from travelers at the rest stops. Or the rest stops could even include inns or other places of business where the profit goes toward maintaining the road.
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I don't see any reason why Desna would pull her blessing from someone who operated a toll gate. They're keeping the area secure. Limiting the traffic through an area during certain times of day can be essential to safety of the road users and the road itself. They aught to have times of day, that are typically low traffic, where the tolls aren't levied so that traffic patterns are smoothed out somewhat. They'd also want to heavily restrict travel during animal movement times like dusk and dawn, possibly requiring hiring a guide. This also means that those who can't afford to pay can chose to wait instead.
The only real issue is how to enforce payment and travel restrictions. Where does their authority to make requests for payment come from? If they provide a service other than preservation of a public road, they'd be better off focusing on monetizing that.
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The area is under someone's jurisiction?
If yes, why he isn't maintaining the road and patrolling it?
If not, does the group work increases the security and useability of the road?
They've made it possible for a road through a dangerous stretch of wilderness to stay active,
I don't see any problem, per se, in the group profiting from the activity, if it is useful unless they claim they are doing it as charity work in Desna's name. Even clerics need to eat.
After a few days, the information that they ask for a contribution to those that use the road will be a piece of common information and, AFAIK, no one is forcing the merchants to use the road.
Golarion lore is really sparse on the relationship between states and how strictly they enforce their control on semi-developed areas.
I am Italian, so I know only a little about it, but most Golarion roads outside of the main nations seem more akin to the Oregon Trail than Roman or Renaissance main trade roads. Maintenance of the local network is done by cities and lords, but large stretches of roads are maintained by those that use them, so doing the work for them allows for faster and safer commerce and movement.
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I am Italian, so I know only a little about it, but most Golarion roads outside of the main nations seem more akin to the Oregon Trail than Roman or Renaissance main trade roads. Maintenance of the local network is done by cities and lords, but large stretches of roads are maintained by those that use them, so doing the work for them allows for faster and safer commerce and movement.
Oregon Trail is probably a pretty good analogy.
Personally I see that as the case in the "frontier" nations like Realm of the Mammoth Lords. In the more central nations of Avistan, I've always pictured it as akin to swathes of Europe from 600-1700 or so. Remote areas that are nominally owned by a nation, but in practice the nation hasn't really done much with that area (except occasionally collect taxes and conscripts) for decades. Some of those remote areas were important in the past, and the roads that were built in past days still existed but weren't patrolled or repaired. Sometimes even including ancient Roman roads.
As for the original question, I think the clergy are in the clear. Particularly if they work on some sort of sliding scale, like letting peasants on foot travel for free.
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Something to keep in mind is that as a team of Devine casters it is more then likely that travelers will pay them for spell casting services, especially if they are out in the sticks where ready access to magic in emergencies is limited, In addition, if in their duties of maintaining the road they stop some beasts or bandits they would gain access to tradable goods that can net a decent profit, as they are maintaining a trade route there are more then likely more then a few merchants willing to give the group good deals. If they are relying soully on tolls for upkeep, then I personally think Abadar would be a better deity for this group. Just my 2 cents.
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Great ideas and opinions everyone!
I like the idea of paying for spellcasting services too, or guide services for the non-magical members of the group.
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I am Italian, so I know only a little about it, but most Golarion roads outside of the main nations seem more akin to the Oregon Trail than Roman or Renaissance main trade roads. Maintenance of the local network is done by cities and lords, but large stretches of roads are maintained by those that use them, so doing the work for them allows for faster and safer commerce and movement.Oregon Trail is probably a pretty good analogy.
Personally I see that as the case in the "frontier" nations like Realm of the Mammoth Lords. In the more central nations of Avistan, I've always pictured it as akin to swathes of Europe from 600-1700 or so. Remote areas that are nominally owned by a nation, but in practice the nation hasn't really done much with that area (except occasionally collect taxes and conscripts) for decades. Some of those remote areas were important in the past, and the roads that were built in past days still existed but weren't patrolled or repaired. Sometimes even including ancient Roman roads.
As for the original question, I think the clergy are in the clear. Particularly if they work on some sort of sliding scale, like letting peasants on foot travel for free.
In central and western Europe I would say that very often the roads were the old Roman roads. Even today some of the roads around the little village at the basis of the Alpi where I was born are built atop old Roman roads, only a bit straightened as now we have better technology.
In Golarion the old Taldan roads from the wars of exploration will do the same function.
I don't know where the OP group play, but if we consider the area of the River Kingdoms, we see an area that was mostly conquered by Taldor and then abandoned and taken over by several small kingdoms, some with a very small population (if I recall correctly, one of them has a census of fewer than 100 people).
I doubt most of those kingdoms will maintain the roads in the core of the nation, even less those on the borders or outside them.
The only problem can be a local despot feeling threatened in his rule by the group activity.
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Great ideas and opinions everyone!
I like the idea of paying for spellcasting services too, or guide services for the non-magical members of the group.
Spellcasting services are strange when you consider the needs of the civilian population. The printed spells are targeted to the need of the adventurers, not the needs of common people.
Most RL wounds wouldn't deliver even 1 hp of damage but would be temporarily invalidating and potentially dangerous if not cared for. As an example, a small burn generating a boil on a hand will risk infection but probably will not count as even 1 point of damage.
The most important spells in RL would be:
- remove disease
- neutralize poison (but most poisons in Pathfinder are fast-acting and, unless the caster is already present, casting the spell an hour later will do nothing);
- purify food and drink
- mending (but it repairs only relatively small items)
Besides purify and mending all are relatively high-level spells and having them cast will be pricey.
There is create water too, very good for a traveling merchant, not so good when you need to water fields and herds of animals.
Every so often I consider if it will be a good idea to create a series of cantrips and low level spells for everyday life.