Taja the Barbarian
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The nonlethal trait modifies the attack rather than any damage it does, so any attack is nonlethal regardless of the damage type with that trait.Correct: 'Nonlethal Damage' does not exist in PF2e:
Core Rulebook pg. 453 2.0 You can make a nonlethal attack in an effort to knock someone out instead of killing them (see Knocked Out and Dying). Weapons with the nonlethal trait (including fists) do this automatically. You take a –2 circumstance penalty to the attack roll when you make a nonlethal attack using a weapon that doesn't have the nonlethal trait. You also take this penalty when making a lethal attack using a nonlethal weapon.Source
Spells and other effects with the nonlethal trait that reduce a creature to 0 Hit Points knock the creature out instead of killing them.
| breithauptclan |
The nonlethal trait modifies the attack rather than any damage it does, so any attack is nonlethal regardless of the damage type with that trait.
It wouldn't modify the attack. There is the stealth errata where the traits of a weapon don't affect the traits of the Strike with the weapon.
But the Nonlethal trait does affect the entire weapon.
However, the Flaming rune is not the weapon - it is attached to the weapon.
So I can see arguments for both cases. If one of the rulings doesn't work for a particular game or character, I don't see any good reason to not use the other ruling.
Also, the circumstances where this becomes important are rather rare. It would have to be the case that the attack would do enough damage from just the Flaming rune to kill the enemy. Because, as is mentioned, nonlethal damage doesn't exist and isn't tracked separately. If the Flaming rune's damage alone couldn't kill the enemy, then it is incredibly hard to argue that the Nonlethal trait from the weapon damage wouldn't take effect and cause the enemy to be knocked unconscious but not dying.
The only scenario that I think would be important on a regular basis would be a character that has taken a vow to never deal lethal attacks or something like that. In that scenario the character would need the ruling that the Nonlethal trait applies to all of the weapon runes in order to be allowed to use those weapon runes.
| HOBOMASTERMAN |
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The only scenario that I think would be important on a regular basis would be a character that has taken a vow to never deal lethal attacks or something like that. In that scenario the character would need the ruling that the Nonlethal trait applies to all of the weapon runes in order to be allowed to use those weapon runes.
That is exactly the situation I was asking for. Currently playing a champion whose deity's anathema include dealing lethal damage and I was hoping to be able to use damaging property runes.
Thanks everyone!
| Squiggit |
It wouldn't modify the attack. There is the stealth errata where the traits of a weapon don't affect the traits of the Strike with the weapon.
The traits aren't relevant here, the rules for nonlethal themselves specifically say they effect the attack.
All the trait does is let you make nonlethal attacks without penalties.
| breithauptclan |
breithauptclan wrote:The only scenario that I think would be important on a regular basis would be a character that has taken a vow to never deal lethal attacks or something like that. In that scenario the character would need the ruling that the Nonlethal trait applies to all of the weapon runes in order to be allowed to use those weapon runes.That is exactly the situation I was asking for. Currently playing a champion whose deity's anathema include dealing lethal damage and I was hoping to be able to use damaging property runes.
Thanks everyone!
Yeah. It may seem a bit counterintuitive to have nonlethal negative damage attacks. But that ruling is certainly more solidly grounded in the wording of the rules.
I can make a fairly decent attempt to argue the other case, but you can see by how outnumbered I am on this thread how well that would go.
And since it would be a rather significant detriment to your character it starts falling into the 'too bad to be true' territory. I certainly wouldn't run the game that way for a character like that in a game I was GM for.