Hello, I have a question.
If an opponent is unconscious because of a lethargy/stupor poison, is it possible to compel it to drink alcohol without waking ?
If you fail a saving throw against alcohol other than initial saves, the affliction’s stage doesn’t increase; the only way to increase the stage of alcohol’s affliction is to consume more alcohol.
Saving Throw DC 12 Fortitude; Onset 10 minutes; Stage 1 +1 item bonus to saving throws against fear effects (10 minutes); Stage 2 flat-footed, +1 item bonus to saving throws against fear effects (10 minutes); Stage 3 clumsy 1, flat-footed, stupefied 2 (10 minutes); Stage 4 clumsy 2 and sickened 2 (10 minutes); Stage 5 clumsy 2, sickened 2, and stupefied 2 (10 minutes); Stage 6 unconscious (8 hours); Stage 7 death
Is it possible to increase the saving throw DC ? If yes, how ?
After 60 minutes or 6 bottles (?), the opponent would advance to stage 6 unconscious if he fails or after 30 minutes or 3 bottles (?) if the opponent critically failing ?
If the opponent drunk 7 bottles, it is the death ? Is it a death effect ?
Slumber vine :
Characters unconscious from slumber wine can't wake up by any means while the poison lasts, don't need to eat or drink while unconscious in this way, and appear to be recently dead unless an examiner succeeds at a DC 40 Medicine check.
Is it possible to kill an opponent affected by a slumber vine without the damage wake up from unconscious ?
Thanks for your future answer.
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I am not sure what the answer to this question is, but it is the kind of hypothetical that makes me worry about a person.
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I think if you try force feeding six bottles of alcohol to someone unconscious, they would either wake up or drown before they got so drunk they died. How does an unconscious person drink that much beer? What kind of question is this exactly?
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You can increase the DC by being an alchemist.
I would say no, I would allow someone to be force fed a drink... but not multiple bottles. They would simply drown.
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Seems like they want to force feed alcohol to someone until they die by getting to Stage 7. But why not just stab them if they're already unconscious?
Honestly, a lot of OPs questions are dubious at best. I have no idea what kind of stuff is happening in their games.
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Seems like they want to force feed alcohol to someone until they die by getting to Stage 7. But why not just stab them if they're already unconscious?
Honestly, a lot of OPs questions are dubious at best. I have no idea what kind of stuff is happening in their games.
My best guess is they want to assassinate someone but want it to look like the person died from drinking too much instead of a murder, which explains them using a poison that just renders them unconscious when they could just as easily have used a lethal poison.
It's not exactly the most heroic sounding thing to do in a game.
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Games go in all sorts of directions sometimes, and some questions are hypothetical. Also, heroic may not be the intended adjective for this game. Let's not go into "this group's game is badwrongfun" type responses, please. Those aren't great for anyone. Especially if they happen without context.
Seems like they want to force feed alcohol to someone until they die by getting to Stage 7. But why not just stab them if they're already unconscious?
What do you mean when you said stab them ? Strike ? But there are not any coup de grace in pathfinder 2e.
I like to win on the opponents with other methods than by conventional means.
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It just seems to be so convoluted. The GM will usually just let you kill someone if you have them unconscious/paralyzed and completely at your mercy. No need to figure out the mechanical way alcohol works for that.
Also like others said, not very heroic. If you tried this in my game it would totally be an evil action.
I guess If you funnel the
Alcohol straight into the stomach using a small Tube of sorts and a Medicine Check
Otherwise I would agree that force feeding multiple bottles (of hopefully strong) alcohol is going to be hard
Maybe put a bottle of distilled alcohol in between to Speed up the process
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If they are unconscious due to a poison and you have enough time and lack of interference to force feed them alcohol until they die, you don't need game mechanics for that, which is why someone said "why not just stab them".
If there is no doubt of the outcome, the GM shouldn't be referring to game mechanics or requiring dice rolls at all, just narrating that you succeed.
Seems like they want to force feed alcohol to someone until they die by getting to Stage 7. But why not just stab them if they're already unconscious?
Honestly, a lot of OPs questions are dubious at best. I have no idea what kind of stuff is happening in their games.
My best guess is they want to assassinate someone but want it to look like the person died from drinking too much instead of a murder, which explains them using a poison that just renders them unconscious when they could just as easily have used a lethal poison.
It's not exactly the most heroic sounding thing to do in a game.
Because every player in this game has to create a Good-aligned character and can't ever make Evil decisions.
Unless this is PFS, which there is no indication that it is, I'm catching whiffs of badwrongfun being called out here.
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Seems like they want to force feed alcohol to someone until they die by getting to Stage 7. But why not just stab them if they're already unconscious?
Honestly, a lot of OPs questions are dubious at best. I have no idea what kind of stuff is happening in their games.
My best guess is they want to assassinate someone but want it to look like the person died from drinking too much instead of a murder, which explains them using a poison that just renders them unconscious when they could just as easily have used a lethal poison.
It's not exactly the most heroic sounding thing to do in a game.
Because every player in this game has to create a Good-aligned character and can't ever make Evil decisions.
Unless this is PFS, which there is no indication that it is, I'm catching whiffs of badwrongfun being called out here.
I'm not saying it is badwrongfun, just that said action is going to cause alignment complications for any non-evil character, which is a relevant concern in the majority of games. Many GMs don't allow evil characters, and many, many parties have at least one character who will actively oppose (with force if necessary) evil actions. I raised it because it is something that has a potential to cause problems in a lot of groups.
Saying that the action is evil is only a criticism if you assume that you should never play evil characters, which is not an assumption I have made (just one people are making for me).
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Seems like they want to force feed alcohol to someone until they die by getting to Stage 7. But why not just stab them if they're already unconscious?
Honestly, a lot of OPs questions are dubious at best. I have no idea what kind of stuff is happening in their games.
My best guess is they want to assassinate someone but want it to look like the person died from drinking too much instead of a murder, which explains them using a poison that just renders them unconscious when they could just as easily have used a lethal poison.
It's not exactly the most heroic sounding thing to do in a game.
Because every player in this game has to create a Good-aligned character and can't ever make Evil decisions.
Unless this is PFS, which there is no indication that it is, I'm catching whiffs of badwrongfun being called out here.
Force feeding someone enough of a drug to kill them is explicitly evil. Asking for the exact mechanics of how it works in the game rules is just weird and disturbing. If a GM allows it in their games, more power to them. Sometimes it's fun to play evil characters, and as long as everyone involved is on board then fine. But when you bring that into the public, that's going a bit too far.
Force feeding someone enough of a drug to kill them is explicitly evil. Asking for the exact mechanics of how it works in the game rules is just weird and disturbing. If a GM allows it in their games, more power to them. Sometimes it's fun to play evil characters, and as long as everyone involved is on board then fine. But when you bring that into the public, that's going a bit too far.Seems like they want to force feed alcohol to someone until they die by getting to Stage 7. But why not just stab them if they're already unconscious?
Honestly, a lot of OPs questions are dubious at best. I have no idea what kind of stuff is happening in their games.
My best guess is they want to assassinate someone but want it to look like the person died from drinking too much instead of a murder, which explains them using a poison that just renders them unconscious when they could just as easily have used a lethal poison.
It's not exactly the most heroic sounding thing to do in a game.
Because every player in this game has to create a Good-aligned character and can't ever make Evil decisions.
Unless this is PFS, which there is no indication that it is, I'm catching whiffs of badwrongfun being called out here.
Is it? Not particularly. The question is a relatively simple one: Can you force feed an unconscious creature a hostile substance? If so, what happens?
The answer is yes (unless PFS), and to otherwise follow the general rules of the related information in question, in this case, poison. If they fail the saving throw, the poison stage escalates to its final stage and they die.
That's it. Questioning the why, which has no factor other than mechanic justification, is a fabrication of your making and is the foundation for these claims of badwrongfun being posed. One that makes me question why Evil options are ever published if every player is so against them ever being a part of the game.
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Disturbing others is badwrongfun, yes yes.
like the above, without further details, is very disturbing and concerning.
How is asking about a corner case rules interaction on the forums disturbing you? There have been far more threads with egregious content compared to this one that have carried on just fine. It's yet another case of overreacting over dumb stuff again.
Alcohol is a poison, so a toxicologist alchemist could brew up high-DC alcohols. Care would have to be taken to avoid drowning the creature, but depending on the size of the creature that might be less of a problem (a massive dragon would probably be fine).
I think calling it torture is a stretch if the intent is to kill the creature. Perhaps the creature is some terrible evil and the adventurers are too weak to bypass its resistances to other forms of death, or there's some other extenuating circumstance like a requirement of discretion. Doing it just for fun would constitute torture to me.
Killing someone at all is pretty evil. If the killer doesn't have a good reason to do so, like protecting others or defending themselves, then it should be treated as such. I'd never consider killing something as being a 'good' thing, but it could probably work its way up to or towards neutral for some circumstances.
Because they're asking about the rules for torturing and murdering a helpless individual. There's a reason why torture isn't a game mechanic. Are you going to complain that Paizo is too sensitive now because they didn't include that?
That is all conjecture and hypotheticals in comparison to the question being asked, which is if you can affect an unconscious individual with alcohol (yes), and if it's effective enough to kill them (depends on their current stage of alcohol poisoning in particular). At no point has the OP stated that they are an Evil PC trying to frame someone or a GM trying to utilize rules to provide a challenge for a group of PCs to solve. But instead of giving that person the benefit of the doubt, we instantly go to "You're a bad person for trying to find rules for your question and I fear for your safety and the safety of your fellow players." Seriously, it's like the OP asked how to make a bomb and we start calling him a terrorist for merely asking a question. "Why do you need to know this information? Are you gonna blow up a school or something?"
Torture isn't a game mechanic because it's essentially a means of storytelling exposition, something which doesn't particularly require mechanics if the end game of the torture is to forward the plot. But if you're going to poison someone to death in a certain way (which is Evil, but besides the point), there is more nuance to this besides being Evil for Evil's sake, like everyone always seems to think it is because they think so lowly of those people to begin with. It certainly seems the starting point for the calls of badwrongfun.
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OP has gone on record with their intent behind this: Finding ways to "win" though non-conventional means. They probably saw that Stage 7 of Alcohol poisoning was death and tried to think up a way to inflict that on an enemy without thinking of the ramifications of this action. We aren't saying they are a bad person, only pointing out that this line of questioning is not a good thing and they should probably re-think it.
If you want a real answer, here's how I would rule this, and I'm spoiling it in case anyone doesn't want to read it.
If you are force feeding someone enough alcohol to reach stage 7, you would have to fight through their body rejecting it and probably constantly vomiting any additional alcohol you try to give them. Drowning is a real possibility, but not on alcohol. As is dehydration if you aren't also giving them water. Seriously, the effort required to keep someone restrained long enough to reach this level of intoxication is literal torture, and to think otherwise shows you have no idea how deadly of a disease alcoholism is. Getting stabbed in the heart is a dream compared to dying of alcohol poisoning.
Is it possible to craft a clockwork brewer with a specific alcohol ?
Bottoms Up Requirements The clockwork brewer has a creature grappled; Effect The clockwork brewer forcefeeds the grappled creature 1 serving of whatever liquid is in the clockwork brewer's tank (typically beer such as Smokeside Sour; see sidebar). The creature is exposed to the liquid's effects, and it can't breathe or speak until the start of its turn.
Didn't the victim grapple by the clockwork brewer after exposed to the liquid's effects ?
Crafting a monster? There aren't normally rules for that, ask your GM.
As for the second part, the question is unclear. The ability requires the clockwork brewer to grapple someone before making them drink anything, rather than after.
As for the second part, the question is unclear.
The creature is exposed to the liquid's effects, and it can't breathe or speak until the start of its turn. After this, did the creature considered as grappled or not ?
Beer, ale, and their many variants are the liquids most commonly contained inside the tanks of Alkenstar's clockwork brewers.
So, it is possible to have an other alcohol, no ?
Is it possible to ise Cordelia's construct key to reprogramming the clockwork brewer as a minion ?
While you're wearing the key, if your attack reduces a construct to 0 Hit Points, instead of destroying it completely, you can send it into a dormant state, from which you can study its inner workings and possibly (at the GM's discretion) spend time and money to reprogram or repurpose it.
It isn't possible to create a clockwork brewer as a construction innovation with Inventor class ?
1. Nothing says the grapple ends early.
2. Other alcohol could presumably be possible. The construct key things sounds like something you want to attempt with a plot device of a specific AP. That's an "ask your GM" thing. Or at least something to ask in the subgroup about that AP.
3. Construct Companion doesn't take things from monster stat blocks.