When looking for archetypes for my technomancer I saw that the magic academy student gets interdisciplinary focus, allowing the use of spells available to mystics and witchwarpers, the spell sergeant is better built for combat and the junkomancer is basically the ultimate technomancer with extra spells and the ability to create a field of technological debris around himself... those three archetypes are truly inviting but I couldn't decide on any of them, the espionage specialist was also alluring.
I told my starfinder DM to allow a house ruled archetype combining them... taking:
The Spell Sergeant military training at 2nd level...
The commando have commando conditioning for gamma protocols (among other similar options but I would choose the gamma protocols, specially since defense against shapeshifting and radiation fits the theme)... (4th level),
The Magic Academy Student gets interdisciplinary studies at 6th level
then there is another trick from the Spell Sergeant, known as flash flourish at 9th level...
then should come from the Espionage Specialist the backstabber trick (12th level),
and last but not least, from the Junkomancer junk form at 18th level and
Storywise all these powers could be acquired in a single MAGICAL COMBAT ACADEMY
Many of the contributing archetypes are losing a lot to work into this archetype...
the junkomancer has more to offer than the junk form, like extra spells for instance (Junk Spell Master), or the scrap expert
the spell sergeant has more to offer than military training and flash flourish...
Like delivering spells with weapons (spell strike) or harming with a cantrip (cantrip specialization) or using teleport to battle (flash stab) and enhancing your flash flourish
the espionage specialist has more to offer than backstabber.... Like the covert expert
but it wouldn't be balanced if I picked everything they had to offer
The commando is the one that is being exploited the least when compared to what a normal commando can accomplish
I've been told both that its OP and that its slightly underpowered... But most importantly that its a mix and match without rhyme or reason but I am slightly inspired by AD&D 2nd edition's bard which is partially made for combat, for thieving and for spellcasting... What do you think? Would you change it to make it official? My DM wont allow it unless the archetype comes in one of the starfinder books... And I see the diversity appropriate for someone studying at a university which has an universalist/universal curriculum.
Ok so break it down.
First you want to trade in a Hack for 2 feats.
Second, you want to trade another Hack for a +2 save vs specifics.
Third, another class bonus for access to a non class spell(Changeable).
Fourth, You want to lose a Magic hack for a teleport ability.
Fifth, you want lose a Hack for an extra feat and more damage (Situational)
Lastly, you want to lose a Capacitor slot for Immunities.
This is nothing like the Bards of old, you basically are talking about a Sorcerer and wanting to multi class into a fighter and a rogue for a few levels and dabble with Divine magic without really sacrificing your spells.
It does feel like you are just picking the best parts of each Archetype and throwing it under the umbrella of 'Universal Magic', like Superman having 90% of the powers available because 'Alien'.
Balanced, don't know. Haven't played a Technomancer and no clue how powerful a Hack is, comparing it the same loss of some of the classes, its Utility, though comparing it to a soldier, your second level one is over powered. Sacrificing 1 feat to gain 2...
End of the day, I really don't think random peoples ideas are going to change much, your DM has his set ruling and I doubt he will change it for random internet strangers.
Edit to add, I doubt it would be made official. As a Archetype it obviously steps on the toes of the other Archetypes a little too much by picking some of their main focus elements.
well maybe they would start with this idea and redesign it into something similiar but which does not step into the toes of other archetypes, maybe take a page from ad&D 2nd edition's bards (there where no sorcerers properly speaking in second edition and rogues was a term for both bards and thieves) and add a musical element (but I prefer they would add a storyteller-element, at 2nd edition bards where as much musicians as they were storytellers, just like real world bards and storytelling is much better than singing or playing musical instruments, in my book) and make it a jack of all trades master of none.
oh and it does sacrifice spells, it means less spells from 4th level onward
Loosing a spell or 2 per day is not loosing a 3rd or half of the available spell levels those classes I mentioned loose. If you want numbers for what I mean comparatively then fine.
A sorcerer can cast over 100 spells a day.
A ranger can do around 20.
A paladin can also do around 20.
Bard, the class you are inspired by, maybe 40.
Now all those classes loose a significant amount of spell casting potential to get their multi talents, your inspiration class is 40% of the spell caster of a pure caster.
Where are you loosing spells beyond 4th level? You loose your cache, which is a limited 1 spell, not a huge loss. You loose out on one spells Known with the 4th level switch, which is not loosing out on your spells. You can still the same number of spells as a standard Technomancer with the same Stat. Not knowing 1 spell of the highest level you know (You regain your second level spell known once you learn 3rd level spells for example) is not sacrificing spell casting potential in any real way. Your still able to cast around 40 spells per day, as a standard Technomancer can at that level.
TBH I am more into AD&D 2nd edition than into starfinder so I don't really know much about this to say much, thinking this through, I have not... But I hope the designers could fix it when creating a new archetype that feels like this without needing to be this.
Trying to cherry pick preferred abilities from archetypes makes you look like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. They're supposed to be tradeoffs, and you aren't trading off if you only grab the bits you want.
A vanilla technomancer is probably the closest thing to an all rounder. Though I'd recommend cache augmentation over any of those archetypes if you're dead set on not playing a vanilla technomancer.
The melophile mystic on the other hand is probably closest to a bard from later editions. Magic and buffing allies with a bit of music and storytelling or however you want to flavor the class abilities. They can also pick up weapon use, but their class features aren't as good at that as the technomancer. They tend to be more of a bard, less of an all rounder.
Now I'm not familiar with Ad&d 2e, but reading the wiki article of an AD&D 2e bard, there's probably another option much closer to that class.
The magical expertise envoy. You get a handful of mystic spells. You can get several combat options to support your allies while attacking. You're pretty good at a variety of skills. You can use spell gems (scrolls) you come across. Just like the other two, you'll want to pick up either longarm proficiency or advanced melee weapon proficiency, but your class features tend to rely on you attacking anyway, so why not?
I dont have strong charisma, I already started playing a technomancer, I've chosen a junkomancer as archetype, maybe I will try multiclassing into a magical expertise envoy, I am totally new to starfinder so I didn't really know if I was abusing stuff by making these choses... can a magical expertise envoy be a melophile too? or is that archetype and that build in opposition one with the other? 'cause I have been told that if I multiclass I can try more than one archetype, an archetype per each class... Although I could be a technomancer and magical expertise envoy with a commando or espionage specialist archetype...
Magical Envoys don't get connections and still rely on Charisma. So for you : no Melophile and not the greatest spells.
Archetypes are a package deal because they can include weak and average stuff to justify also including more potent things (ideally), which is why picking and choosing only the good stuff tends to break the purpose of them.
They're also not designed to be straight up overall upgrades, but a more or less even trade, just with a different flavor (again : ideally)
For that matter, a lot of what you're aiming for is just bonus feats : why not just take them normally ? Is your build that busy that can't fit a couple feats you clearly want badly ?
It's entirely possible of course but if they're worth sacrificing class features, they might be worth the feat slots.
Half elven gnomic dwarf wrote: I dont have strong charisma, I already started playing a technomancer, I've chosen a junkomancer as archetype, maybe I will try multiclassing into a magical expertise envoy, I am totally new to starfinder so I didn't really know if I was abusing stuff by making these choses... can a magical expertise envoy be a melophile too? or is that archetype and that build in opposition one with the other? 'cause I have been told that if I multiclass I can try more than one archetype, an archetype per each class... Although I could be a technomancer and magical expertise envoy with a commando or espionage specialist archetype... I would stick to the junkomancer technomancer. Stick to that character and make it better at what it does than multiclass.
Nyerkh wrote: Magical Envoys don't get connections and still rely on Charisma. So for you : no Melophile and not the greatest spells.
Archetypes are a package deal because they can include weak and average stuff to justify also including more potent things (ideally), which is why picking and choosing only the good stuff tends to break the purpose of them.
They're also not designed to be straight up overall upgrades, but a more or less even trade, just with a different flavor (again : ideally)
For that matter, a lot of what you're aiming for is just bonus feats : why not just take them normally ? Is your build that busy that can't fit a couple feats you clearly want badly ?
It's entirely possible of course but if they're worth sacrificing class features, they might be worth the feat slots.
How do I take them normally? I don't know.
Garretmander wrote: Half elven gnomic dwarf wrote: I dont have strong charisma, I already started playing a technomancer, I've chosen a junkomancer as archetype, maybe I will try multiclassing into a magical expertise envoy, I am totally new to starfinder so I didn't really know if I was abusing stuff by making these choses... can a magical expertise envoy be a melophile too? or is that archetype and that build in opposition one with the other? 'cause I have been told that if I multiclass I can try more than one archetype, an archetype per each class... Although I could be a technomancer and magical expertise envoy with a commando or espionage specialist archetype... I would stick to the junkomancer technomancer. Stick to that character and make it better at what it does than multiclass. Oh, ok, I guess I have to do it like that before I understand the game to take challenging combos.
Half elven gnomic dwarf wrote: Nyerkh wrote: Magical Envoys don't get connections and still rely on Charisma. So for you : no Melophile and not the greatest spells.
Archetypes are a package deal because they can include weak and average stuff to justify also including more potent things (ideally), which is why picking and choosing only the good stuff tends to break the purpose of them.
They're also not designed to be straight up overall upgrades, but a more or less even trade, just with a different flavor (again : ideally)
For that matter, a lot of what you're aiming for is just bonus feats : why not just take them normally ? Is your build that busy that can't fit a couple feats you clearly want badly ?
It's entirely possible of course but if they're worth sacrificing class features, they might be worth the feat slots.
How do I take them normally? I don't know.
Garretmander wrote: Half elven gnomic dwarf wrote: I dont have strong charisma, I already started playing a technomancer, I've chosen a junkomancer as archetype, maybe I will try multiclassing into a magical expertise envoy, I am totally new to starfinder so I didn't really know if I was abusing stuff by making these choses... can a magical expertise envoy be a melophile too? or is that archetype and that build in opposition one with the other? 'cause I have been told that if I multiclass I can try more than one archetype, an archetype per each class... Although I could be a technomancer and magical expertise envoy with a commando or espionage specialist archetype... I would stick to the junkomancer technomancer. Stick to that character and make it better at what it does than multiclass. Oh, ok, I guess I have to do it like that before I understand the game to take challenging combos. Reddit's Cameron 808 wrote: You're a technomancer and you want to be good at combat and stealth and casting spell...
I'd probably go alternate class feature for cache augmentation since that can boost your to hit and it about the only way. Plus free augmentation, eventually you can get cool stuff like holographic eyes free off this.
Then stat into stealth and potentially grab skill synergy to get it as a class skill. Spend some other feats on proficiencies you want like advanced melee or heavy weapons and weapon focus. Spell sergeant is a solid archetype if you need/want it but you end up losing some things like cache capacitor advancement, which technically means you can't do this and take the alt cache augmentation, but ask your GM. It's pretty easy to logic out how it would work here.
You'll be great at casting spells regardless lol.
Esotericist is a strong caster archetype if you want to archetype, 9th level spell shaping can boost your spells nicely, letting you double up on a single target spell and whatnot. That's probably the only ability I'd take off the archetype since they're all optional.
You believe I should go esotericist instead of junkomancer? Would I be able to use cache augmentation? How do you believe I am being advised to create my less vainilla more stealth and more combat spellcaster? How should I be advised? I do want to have more combat and stealth skill as well as strong casting skill. What do you think?
|
