Half elven gnomic dwarf's page

well I am thinking the tutor could be a shapeshifitng cg celestial... maybe the first lesson of celestial the first lesson of protean, the spell of both, but the second and third lesson of neither...

I've been kicked out because I wanted to argue in favor of a junkomancer technomancer that casts the following spells at 20th level:
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43k2a?spells-for-junkomancers

so now i have the opportunity to rewrite Thomas "Son of a Gun" Forgeheart into a character more to my liking maybe using this archetype https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43hn6?A-frankenarchetype-is-it-balanced-could- it-be or else a houseruled immortal tutor https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43kfd?Galactic-Magic-Houseruling-Immortal-Tuto r (the third lesson should be optional) or if the dm I find wants btb, being a junkomancer but with the spell list given above that is btb but flavoured in a unique way... or maybe into a technowitch or spymaster. the spell list of the technowitch is close to what I want, the features of the spymaster are similar to what I wanted for archetype as frankenarchetype... technowitches and spymasters feel better as irreligious characters...

so here is the question...

just like there are mechanical flavors for religious character, are there mechanical flavors for irreligious characters? planescape had factions which included the atheist thars the apotheotic... mmm... I think it was the signers... mystheists like the dustmen... etc. knowing that my character is a sensate dwarfish xenomorphic android technomancer who enjoys disguise and stealth for adventure and necrotheurgy and transmutation for superheroics... which deity do you believe fits my Tommy best? he is good aligned and Eloritu is tempting but not convincing... if he had a immortal tutor it would be a houseruled combo of celestial and protea... so which good aligned deity fits him best? I will read advice while I read the different religions to see what fits best... but what ya think?

I cant edit the previous post so I answer to it;

In order of most attractive to least attractive are the following faiths for Tommy... (what isn't attractive is that some are non good or non chaotic despite otherwise being a match for Tommy)

Singularitism...

The Song of Silence... (Sin Eater?)...

Black Butterfly...

Caiden Cailean...

Jalvari...

Triune...

Accelsys...

Yaraesa...

Desna...

The Gap recollective...

Isvith...

Weydan...

Eloritu...

Talavet...

The parallel truths...

and for magic institute?:

The ninefold collective maybe?

Jhavom?

and for Magical faction?

Integrated future front?

Scrutineers?

akashic society?

essential magics?

guardian tree?

I am biased, but... and a n00b... but what about xenomorphic android technomancer? as for what kind of xenomorphic android it could be elven dragonkind dwarven or, if your dm allows it, dwelven.

I've been kicked out because I wanted to argue in favor of a junkomancer technomancer that casts the following spells at 20th level:
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43k2a?spells-for-junkomancers

so now i have the opportunity to rewrite Thomas "Son of a Gun" Forgeheart into a character more to my liking maybe using this archetype https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43hn6?A-frankenarchetype-is-it-balanced-could- it-be or else a houseruled immortal tutor https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43kfd?Galactic-Magic-Houseruling-Immortal-Tuto r (the third lesson should be optional) or if the dm I find wants btb, being a junkomancer but with the spell list given above that is btb but flavoured in a unique way... or maybe into a technowitch or spymaster. the spell list of the technowitch is close to what I want, the features of the spymaster are similar to what I wanted for archetype as frankenarchetype... technowitches and spymasters feel better as irreligious characters...

so here is the question...

just like there are mechanical flavors for religious character, are there mechanical flavors for irreligious characters? planescape had factions which included the atheist thars the apotheotic... mmm... I think it was the signers... mystheists like the dustmen... etc. knowing that my character is a sensate dwarfish xenomorphic android technomancer who enjoys disguise and stealth for adventure and necrotheurgy and transmutation for superheroics... which deity do you believe fits my Tommy best? he is good aligned and Eloritu is tempting but not convincing... if he had a immortal tutor it would be a houseruled combo of celestial and protea... so which good aligned deity fits him best? I will read advice while I read the different religions to see what fits best... but what ya think?

how would you house rule a technomancer with a shapeshifting chaotic good celestial as immortal tutor that straddles the fence between celestial and protean? i was thinking...

the celestial spell and first lesson...

the protean spell and its first lesson and third lesson...

neither's second lesson...

but with two spells might be OP... and besides flavor I think this should be houseruled into something balanced, how would you do it?

it could just be a fashion statement, a fashion choice, don't over think it.

Thanks :D

oh thanks, that sounds cool

where is this from? is there anything for technomancers?

oh ok, mmm... well, I realized a sonic gauntlet, if it exists, a gauntlet with the properties of a thunderstrike rifle would be better to complement the shock knife and the cryo gun, the sad thing is that i cant find official artwork of a starfinder survival knife, even less as a bayonet.

Just checked... while the zero weapons are the same of the core rulebook, they are available with an empty background which is an improvement... none of the stock or shun weapons looks like a survival knife, but they all show how electricity can be represented... so its cool. Thanks

Thanks Kishmo! gonna check

By the way, are you a regular starfinder player or a member of paizo's staff? If the later, you may want to incorporate the stuff into a future rulebook :p if the former... what do you know about finding games on discord? I want to use my android after beeing given the boot for irreconcible creative differences with my dm....

EDIT:

haven't found official artwork for survival knifes, so official artwork for spark knifes is out of the question :(

Half elven gnomic dwarf wrote:

If you had an Absolute-Zero Hail Pistol, an Avalanche class zero pistol, a sub-zero hail pistol or a frostbite zero pistol... with a bayonet bracket joined to a spark knife (boss or runner)... How would your storm weapon look like? Is there any official artwork for this?

No artwork officially, but I'M certainly inspired by this description! May I use it with a future character?

be my guest Zousha, use it when you can... my former DM ruled the combo out but if your DM allows it, cool... (Just remember crediting dwelves for its invention)

Well I haven't spotted any pics of the Spark knife but the description mentions they look like survival knives, so probably easy to see how they look. The pistol is on page 175 of the CRB, so depending on version I think its probably a recolour with some mild cosmetic changes.

As for the two together, would need an artist to develop that

That's the thing, I am thinking commisioning a picture of my character as soon as possible and i want to help the artist get the official stuff right, so I wanted to know if there are images of both together. I guess a spark knife should look like a survival guide with an electric aura...

EDIT: add a sonic thunderstrike sidearm also with an electric knife, and you've got the whole combo

If you had an Absolute-Zero Hail Pistol, an Avalanche class zero pistol, a sub-zero hail pistol or a frostbite zero pistol... with a bayonet bracket joined to a spark knife (boss or runner)... How would your storm weapon look like? Is there any official artwork for this?

the differences between us, for playing starfinder, were irreconciliable... so now I am looking for a group where I can play my junkomancer technomancer android the way I had wanted to.

my corrected spell list would then be:

0th level
Enduring stylus
Ghost sounds
Mending
Psychokinetic Hand
Token Spell
Transfer Charge

1st level
Hide Weapon
Junk Armor
Junk Shards
Know Coordinates
Phase Blade
Translocate Object
Tectonic Shift

2nd level
Body Double
Command Undead
Deprive Knowledge
Laser Net
Make Whole
Microbot Assault
Vigilant junkbot

3rd level
Akashic Tutor
Junksword
Mind of Three
Nanite Form
Nightmare
Phantom Cycle
Wall of Air

4th level
Animate Dead
Awaken Computer
Baleful Polymorph
Baleful Polymorph, Mass
Digital Doorway
Junk Restraints
Wall of Fire

5th level
Animate Armor
Control Machines
Heat Leech
Junk Shanty
Polymorph, Mass
Wall of Force

6th level
Battle junkbot
Necromantic Revitalization
Reanimate
Shadowy Fleet
Shrink Object

I was wrong on the theme thing, I was confused by the first level perk of theme sensate being theme knowledge... I will comment this to my dm after he seems to be in the mood once more for this, since I may have wrecked the data on my character and I am no longer sure I have 16 intelligence (sensates get +1 to constitution, not to intelligence.) He is very busy I think so I cant show him this yet.

I am not sure I understand how having 16 intelligence and being a junkomancer affects my character's ability to amass spells... I know I get extra spells here and there but less spells over there and over here... As I understand it, if I were 20th level I would get 7 spells per level for levels 1 to 4 and 6 for spell level 5 and 6... My DM told me that by the book who my character worships limits his spell choice, so we agreed he would publicly follow Eloritu and privately follow Urgathoa, be neutral publicly and evil in reality... or stay on the edge next to the fall...

Accordingly I've project that by 20th level my spell list would be:

0th level
Enduring stylus
Ghost sounds
Mending
Psychokinetic Hand
Token Spell
Transfer Charge
1st level
Hide Weapon
Junk Armor
Junk Shards
Know Coordinates
Phase Blade
Translocate Object
Tectonic Shift
2nd level
Body Double
Command Undead
Deprive Knowledge
Laser Net
Make Whole
Microbot Assault
Mirror Image
3rd level
Akashic Tutor
Junksword
Mind of Three
Nanite Form
Nightmare
Phantom Cycle
Wall of Air
4th level
Animate Dead
Awaken Computer
Baleful Polymorph
Baleful Polymorph, Mass
Digital Doorway
Junk Restraints
Wall of Fire
5th level
Animate Armor
Control Machines
Heat Leech
Junk Shanty
Polymorph, Mass
Wall of Force
6th level
Necromantic Revitalization
Reanimate
Shadow Walk
Shadowy Fleet
Shrink Object
Wall of Steel

The purpose is to make my character an android that treats organic lifeforms as puppets to play with, to mold them with his æsthetic sense and control their corpses... In a mockery of the former relationship between androids and organic lifeforms... But my DM wants my character to be a specialist and has a hard time accepting the character as an android necrotheurgist pc... I know I can defend there being a uniting theme to the spells above... but I need first to be sure they are what the rules say a junkomancer would have as spells at 20th level... (I am still 2nd level, I just want my project to be okeyed). I also saw there's contradictory information as my character's theme is listed both as sensate and as scholar, specialized in botany. Since there is already another technomancer botanist if I keep two themes I may make him a scholar in forensic medicine... Also, I wanted to use baleful polymorph on the driver of a mech suit but the dm ruled it that since I couldn't really see the driver (although I knew he was inside the suit) I couldn't target him... Is that ok? How can I use baleful polymorph against such enemies then? Please, help me with this, the DM wants to be by-the-book but also has a hard time sticking to our plan of making the android a necrotheurgist... Thanks in advance for your answers.

Nyerkh wrote:

Magical Envoys don't get connections and still rely on Charisma. So for you : no Melophile and not the greatest spells.

Archetypes are a package deal because they can include weak and average stuff to justify also including more potent things (ideally), which is why picking and choosing only the good stuff tends to break the purpose of them.
They're also not designed to be straight up overall upgrades, but a more or less even trade, just with a different flavor (again : ideally)

For that matter, a lot of what you're aiming for is just bonus feats : why not just take them normally ? Is your build that busy that can't fit a couple feats you clearly want badly ?
It's entirely possible of course but if they're worth sacrificing class features, they might be worth the feat slots.

How do I take them normally? I don't know.

Garretmander wrote:

Half elven gnomic dwarf wrote:

I dont have strong charisma, I already started playing a technomancer, I've chosen a junkomancer as archetype, maybe I will try multiclassing into a magical expertise envoy, I am totally new to starfinder so I didn't really know if I was abusing stuff by making these choses... can a magical expertise envoy be a melophile too? or is that archetype and that build in opposition one with the other? 'cause I have been told that if I multiclass I can try more than one archetype, an archetype per each class... Although I could be a technomancer and magical expertise envoy with a commando or espionage specialist archetype...

I would stick to the junkomancer technomancer. Stick to that character and make it better at what it does than multiclass.

Oh, ok, I guess I have to do it like that before I understand the game to take challenging combos.

You're a technomancer and you want to be good at combat and stealth and casting spell...

I'd probably go alternate class feature for cache augmentation since that can boost your to hit and it about the only way. Plus free augmentation, eventually you can get cool stuff like holographic eyes free off this.
Then stat into stealth and potentially grab skill synergy to get it as a class skill. Spend some other feats on proficiencies you want like advanced melee or heavy weapons and weapon focus. Spell sergeant is a solid archetype if you need/want it but you end up losing some things like cache capacitor advancement, which technically means you can't do this and take the alt cache augmentation, but ask your GM. It's pretty easy to logic out how it would work here.
You'll be great at casting spells regardless lol.

Esotericist is a strong caster archetype if you want to archetype, 9th level spell shaping can boost your spells nicely, letting you double up on a single target spell and whatnot. That's probably the only ability I'd take off the archetype since they're all optional.

You believe I should go esotericist instead of junkomancer? Would I be able to use cache augmentation? How do you believe I am being advised to create my less vainilla more stealth and more combat spellcaster? How should I be advised? I do want to have more combat and stealth skill as well as strong casting skill. What do you think?

Magical Envoys don't get connections and still rely on Charisma. So for you : no Melophile and not the greatest spells.

Archetypes are a package deal because they can include weak and average stuff to justify also including more potent things (ideally), which is why picking and choosing only the good stuff tends to break the purpose of them.
They're also not designed to be straight up overall upgrades, but a more or less even trade, just with a different flavor (again : ideally)

For that matter, a lot of what you're aiming for is just bonus feats : why not just take them normally ? Is your build that busy that can't fit a couple feats you clearly want badly ?
It's entirely possible of course but if they're worth sacrificing class features, they might be worth the feat slots.

How do I take them normally? I don't know.

Half elven gnomic dwarf wrote:

I dont have strong charisma, I already started playing a technomancer, I've chosen a junkomancer as archetype, maybe I will try multiclassing into a magical expertise envoy, I am totally new to starfinder so I didn't really know if I was abusing stuff by making these choses... can a magical expertise envoy be a melophile too? or is that archetype and that build in opposition one with the other? 'cause I have been told that if I multiclass I can try more than one archetype, an archetype per each class... Although I could be a technomancer and magical expertise envoy with a commando or espionage specialist archetype...

I would stick to the junkomancer technomancer. Stick to that character and make it better at what it does than multiclass.

Oh, ok, I guess I have to do it like that before I understand the game to take challenging combos.

I dont have strong charisma, I already started playing a technomancer, I've chosen a junkomancer as archetype, maybe I will try multiclassing into a magical expertise envoy, I am totally new to starfinder so I didn't really know if I was abusing stuff by making these choses... can a magical expertise envoy be a melophile too? or is that archetype and that build in opposition one with the other? 'cause I have been told that if I multiclass I can try more than one archetype, an archetype per each class... Although I could be a technomancer and magical expertise envoy with a commando or espionage specialist archetype...

TBH I am more into AD&D 2nd edition than into starfinder so I don't really know much about this to say much, thinking this through, I have not... But I hope the designers could fix it when creating a new archetype that feels like this without needing to be this.

oh and it does sacrifice spells, it means less spells from 4th level onward

well maybe they would start with this idea and redesign it into something similiar but which does not step into the toes of other archetypes, maybe take a page from ad&D 2nd edition's bards (there where no sorcerers properly speaking in second edition and rogues was a term for both bards and thieves) and add a musical element (but I prefer they would add a storyteller-element, at 2nd edition bards where as much musicians as they were storytellers, just like real world bards and storytelling is much better than singing or playing musical instruments, in my book) and make it a jack of all trades master of none.

When looking for archetypes for my technomancer I saw that the magic academy student gets interdisciplinary focus, allowing the use of spells available to mystics and witchwarpers, the spell sergeant is better built for combat and the junkomancer is basically the ultimate technomancer with extra spells and the ability to create a field of technological debris around himself... those three archetypes are truly inviting but I couldn't decide on any of them, the espionage specialist was also alluring.
I told my starfinder DM to allow a house ruled archetype combining them... taking:
The Spell Sergeant military training at 2nd level...
The commando have commando conditioning for gamma protocols (among other similar options but I would choose the gamma protocols, specially since defense against shapeshifting and radiation fits the theme)... (4th level),
The Magic Academy Student gets interdisciplinary studies at 6th level
then there is another trick from the Spell Sergeant, known as flash flourish at 9th level...
then should come from the Espionage Specialist the backstabber trick (12th level),
and last but not least, from the Junkomancer junk form at 18th level and

Storywise all these powers could be acquired in a single MAGICAL COMBAT ACADEMY

Many of the contributing archetypes are losing a lot to work into this archetype...

the junkomancer has more to offer than the junk form, like extra spells for instance (Junk Spell Master), or the scrap expert

the spell sergeant has more to offer than military training and flash flourish...
Like delivering spells with weapons (spell strike) or harming with a cantrip (cantrip specialization) or using teleport to battle (flash stab) and enhancing your flash flourish

the espionage specialist has more to offer than backstabber.... Like the covert expert

but it wouldn't be balanced if I picked everything they had to offer

The commando is the one that is being exploited the least when compared to what a normal commando can accomplish

I've been told both that its OP and that its slightly underpowered... But most importantly that its a mix and match without rhyme or reason but I am slightly inspired by AD&D 2nd edition's bard which is partially made for combat, for thieving and for spellcasting... What do you think? Would you change it to make it official? My DM wont allow it unless the archetype comes in one of the starfinder books... And I see the diversity appropriate for someone studying at a university which has an universalist/universal curriculum.