| roquepo |
Just posted this on Reddit, need some help with this part of the guide as this playstyle is not talked about that much online and I have never seen it in play.
My questions are:
How do they feel in play in general? Does this playstyle warp the game too much for them to be effective?
How GM dependent do you think they are on a scale from 1 to 10?
How does Snare Hopping feel in play? Do you think it is effective?
How necessary is Powerful Snares?
Do you think it is necessary to invest heavily in stealth to be effective with this playstyle?
Is Quick Snares worth it or are snares something better done before a fight? What about Lightning Snares?
Would also appreciate if you could specify in your replies if you have played with them, seen them in play used by other PCs or if you are just theorycrafting, thanks in advance.
| breithauptclan |
Theorycrafting here:
My expectation is that snares are really only useful for some styles of games. If the players are always either on the attack or being ambushed by random encounters, then snares are really low value. There are some niche shenanigans that will let them be used in an unprepared battle, but even then the actions it takes to set them up are probably better used doing something else.
For games that have a more varied encounter type it is possible to have time to pre-set the snares before the actual fighting happens. If that is the case, then the snares can be really useful. Setting your party up with terrain advantage and using forced movement actions to get enemies to trigger damage can be quite powerful.
| shroudb |
i did play as a snare ranger in a one shot, but we were high level so that muddles things quite a bit, especially since all the "in-combat" stuff with them comes online quite late in the game.
it helps that i was archetyping into monk and i was throwing the enemies IN the snares that were setup behind me.
All in all, i think that in the early and mid level games, they require too much setup to be widely usable. They can work in specific scenarios like defense, secure night camps, and etc, but for daily usage they are circumstantial.
later on, when you can setup them while in combat without wasting full turns, and there are tools in the party for repositioning, they do help with some pretty great spike damage.
| Castilliano |
If you think of Snares as limited use "blasts", you're getting a lot of scaling firepower for just one feat. Often it'll be useful to drop one in front of the party, perhaps to guard a flank, or the rear if expecting reinforcements, etc. And if you can set it up outside of combat, that's like a free attack w/o MAP re: action economy.
How useful they are will depend on how many hands free you usually have, i.e. they're horrible for a two-weapon build; what other kits you might want available, i.e. Medicine vs. Snare kit?; and what the composition of the party is, i.e. heavy into ranged will benefit more than skirmishers.
And if your enemies usually hold their ground, fly, or bombard, Snares won't help much. But if they charge, surround, call in allies from down the hall, or have set patrols, you're golden setting them up pre-combat.
And as Shroudb noted, if you have the ability to push (or less often pull) enemies into the Snares they become more useful. Note that Forced Movement (other than push/pull) isn't allowed to force you into hazardous areas though there's GM adjudication involved there. Or maybe you can immobilize the target with an ability to stick them on a recurring Snare. Ouch! (I could also imagine a grappler w/ Evasion holding them there.)
This isn't to say they're worth changing one's whole game around, but if they suit the style you're already playing they don't require that much investment to work, one feat & maybe some skill investment for more uses.
If more focused on Snares, and funnily enough I'd been making such a PC last night, one can go Snarecrafter Dedication and w/ Surprise Snares (4) toss Snares right on your enemy. Then when you get to Lightning Snares (12/14 Archetype) you can drop Snares like crazy w/ zero effect on MAP. Big thug you haven't Hunted Prey on gets in your archer's face you drop three Scything Blade Snares on them at 14d8 slashing each (DC 29 basic Reflex because Surprise Snares lowers the DC by 2). Even at half damage that's 90-ish total. Or maybe one's a Bleeding Spines Snare so the enemy's pressured to use an action moving.
Of course you don't have to be a Ranger to do all that, but a Ranger can get many more uses, tons more in fact.
I'm not so keen on Snare Hopping that let's you move Snares around, mainly because it requires getting another Focus Spell first and must move the Snare to an unoccupied square. It'd be very useful in specific instances, yes, but either Snares are a light investment (not enough uses to justify this) or a heavy investment (not enough room among feats!). I suppose once one gets Lightning Snares the Ranger could make a Snare then move it at range in the same round, which would be tactically useful quite often. That is if one had the feats to pull it off (like at those tables w/ free Dedications not that I'd give advice assuming that). One could argue that the spell's a visible effect, so not so great at sneaking in a Snare. Past a point, enemies need to take a Seek action even to get a chance to spot your Snares so that's really nice if they don't witness you placing them...perhaps because you came in Invisible. (I'd think one would turn visible after placing the Snare rather than during.)
ETA: I've read a couple of comments from Snare users saying they found them excellent and quite damaging, even game-changing in some key battles.
| HumbleGamer |
Depends if you consider 1 snare per square or being able to place a hundreds of snares per square.
A friend took the snare crafter archetype, but still have to use it.
Using snares during a combat would result into a malus for the whole party, the encounter balance and so on. I really discourage this.
Luring enemies before the combat starts, on the other hands, or even simply putting snares on another possible access to the fighting zone, would result into something really cool and strong ( even if the enemies find the snares and expend actions to neutralize them ).